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TXBear

I just reread this account of kerrys, 20 February 1969 action in the Boston Globe where he states:

baldeagl · PO3 Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 260 Location: Texas

If you read Joe Muharsky's story about an ambush on 6 Mar 69, he talks about putting two belts of ammo together (7000 rounds) for his M-60 and how the barrel got so hot it glowed, the machine gun jammed and he had to keep pounding it on the deck to keep firing.

I'm sure they kept plenty of ammo. They were constantly at risk of attack from two sides.
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Abbey November · Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:45 pm Post subject:

If memory serves, on the Mark 1 model swiftboat, the twin 50 mount carried 500 rounds per barrel. The aft piggy back 50 mount carried 100 rounds. There were several pre-loaded replacement containers for the aft mount that were carried on deck. The Mark 3 model swiftboat's twin 50 mount carried about 1000 rounds per barrel. I could be wrong though. The Mark 1's may have had 1000 rounds per barrel in the twin 50 mount and the Mark 3's 2000 per barrel. The boats carried a supply of extra barrels. After firefights, bake offs occured when the gunners didn't clear the last round. In the bilge, under the main cabin was where the extra ammunition was carried. There was enough ammunition to reload twice. The ammunition box on the aft deck at the stern was for mortar rounds. There was room for almost 100 rounds. The boats also carried a large amount of 7.62 belted ammunition for M-60's. Some of the Mark 3 swifts had two twin mounts of M-60's aft and two single M-60's forward.

TXBear · Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:43 pm Post subject:

Thanks, I appreciate the info.

Wing Wiper · Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:49 pm Post subject:

scraper3 · Seaman Recruit Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 13

Just to amplify a bit. The spot report for that mission stated there were 6 boats. Used 14,000 rds 50 cal., 8,300 rds M60, 480 rds M79. The CTE was 194.5.4.4, I believe that was Kerry. Kerry and Thorson took shrapnel hits.

The summation of the report states the area the boats operated in that day was "extremely prosperous and open to psyops action." Seems a strange way to describe an area where thesame report says boats came under heavy rocket and A/W fire. 14,000 rds represents over 10% of total usage for the month. This may be routine but seems like a lot of firepower.

Abbey November · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:10 am Post subject:

Hey Wing Wiper, I don't know about the different models for the .50 calibers, but I do know they did bake off on the boats and that we and the gunners were trained to clear the round that was in the chamber after the firing stopped to avoid accidents. Back aft it was a safety thing. Up top, it would just scare the OinC and helmsman when it baked off, ie. unexpectedly.

Wing Wiper · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:49 am Post subject:

BMG Mike · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 19

Ma Deuce does indeed fire from the closed bolt. There is a bolt lock open mechanism also, but it doesn't engage automatically. The bolt must be manually retracted to engage. Cookoff is possible with any of the BMG designs.

Mike

Boundless · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 93

BMG Mike: > Ma Deuce does indeed fire from the closed bolt.

Astonishing. The M2 was, as I recall, designed by John
Browning, at about the same time as he did the BAR, and the
BAR fires from an open bolt.

Any insight into why the M2 is a closed-bolt design?

BMG Mike · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 19

Boundless,

All I can figure is that the M2 is a derivative of the .30 cal designs, M1917 (water cooled) and BMG M1919 (air cooled), both closed-bolt designs. The inner workings are identical in concept, with allowances for the differing power (recoil) of the two calibers. The later .30 cals don't have a bolt latch, but the early BMG 1919s did have a manual one.

The BAR M1919 was type-accepted before the M2 development was complete - in fact, I think the M2 was originally M1921.

The big difference is that the BMGs extract the next round from the belt on the rearward movement of the bolt. An open bolt design would have a live round hanging from the bolt face; and I don't think the hanging mechanism would be all that reliable to insure a next shot function. The Canadians have made an open-bolt modification to the 1919, but I don't have any hands-on experience with it, so I can't comment on its reliability.

The BAR and M60 unlink (or strip from the mag) and chamber on the forward stroke of the bolt. The ammo is securely held in the "high capacity ammunition feeding device" until the trigger is pulled.

By the time M2 was type accepted, it may have been envisioned as primarily aircraft equipment, and there is enough air cooling in a slipstream to minimize the chance of cookoff. History has shown it to be far more flexible than was perhaps envisioned.

Cookoffs in the ground guns are prevented by quickly (5 sec or less) opening the bolt to unchamber the round. Unfortunately, it ususally takes longer than that to realize that the threat is neutralized, by which time a cookoff can be imminent.

One thing you DO NOT want to do is to have a .50 BMG round go off out-of-battery. It's real hard on guns and gunners. So the immediate action is to leave it chambered and let it possible cook off, hopefully with the muzzle in a safe direction.

Mike

BMG Mike · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 19

Above post should read BAR M1918.

Mike

Wing Wiper · Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:20 am Post subject:

Moral to the story: don't walk in front of hot M2's. Good thing to know, thanks.

Boundless · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 93

> Moral to the story: don't walk in front of hot M2's.

Or any full-auto or selective-fire weapon that fires
from a closed bolt, including the M16 & derivatives.

I wouldn't even be terribly surprised if extended
heavy semi firing can get a pure semi-auto, like
an AR-15, hot enough to cook off.