SwiftVets.com

[middleroad]

Maybe this is one of those cases where those who watch a debate come up with different conclusions than those who READ the debate. I just read the entire transcript here on this site, and I think you should remove it because it's not helping the cause. O'Neill basically avoided the issues, i.e. war crimes as defined by Geneva vs. the more sensational stuff, Vietnamization, etc., at all costs and kept returning, returning, returning to the fact that Kerry doesn't represent 2 1/2 million vets. I suppose people can't debate an issue where other people are involved without explicitly conditioning every statement with "In my experience...". Of course O'Neill doesn't do this either, and Kerry calls him on it. Also, I thought it was particularly funny, er, unfortunate when he challenges Kerry to produce a veteran who is willing to testify to war crimes, then backs off immediately to home-base position (ok, now produce 2 1/2 million witnesses...) when Kerry calls his bluff. I'm relieved to hear that when viewing this episode O'Neill comes off as professional, though. It's hard to imagine given the snide remarks and repeated attempts to cut off both Kerry and the moderator at nearly every break.javascript:emoticon('')
Laughing

Here's the deal. Keep attacking Kerry's Vietnam record. This strategy is obviously working, and we're all result-oriented people here, right? So avoid talking about whether Vietnam was actually a winnable war, let alone a good idea, and instead talk about whether or not bullets were flying while Kerry dragged his comrade onto the boat 30 years ago. Also above all, avoid talking about the current war but instead keep clinging to and promulgating the notion that it's not possible to protest a war without being unpatriotic. This is good stuff, even if it makes the head spin a little. Stay on message!javascript:emoticon('')
Rolling Eyes

History has shown, and the intelligent among you know, that Vietnam was a waste of money and human beings, and indeed systematic violations of the Geneva convention did take place. Most importantly, a clear distinction could and can be made between protesting a war and deriding those who participate in it bravely and with good intentions. Unfortunately both happened 30 years ago. Only the former is happening this time around, try as the Right might to smear the movement with the latter. And yes, this war is a colossal waste.javascript:emoticon('')
Crying or Very sad

[leeinwv]

I think the swiftvets have done their work well enough

They can decide what they want to do

[rb325th]

History has shown that the Anti-War demonstrators of the 60s and 70s are largely responsible for the Loss of the Vietnam War, a War in wich we had won every single battle with the enenmey, a War that after Tet the North was in a hopless state after squandering much of its Military might, a War in wich our Servicemen fought with Honor, Integrity and compassion. The North knew they could hold on and win because of one major reason, that the U.S. Public through the efforts of the Anti_War crowd was steadily buying into their propaganda of incredible atrocoties, the futility of the War, the lack of desire of the people of the South to remain free of communism. This lost the War as the politicians had to aquiesce to the public demands to halt the War. This resulted in hundreds of thousands of Refugees from the South as well as many more killed by the Communist after their takeover.
Veterans of the Vietnam War as well as all Veterans who have seen the betrayal of John Kerry to his fellow fighting men have not just the right to be mad at him, but also an obligation to expose him for his providing aid and comfort to the enemey of the United States at a time of War!
Had he done that in past days I would venture a guess he would not be running for anything and his days thereafter would not have been of luxury and a member of the Government.
Our men returned home to ridicule from the Anti-War crowd, defamation of character, and a sense of betrayal by their Nation and fellow man!
Even now we have groups of Anti_War Protestors who do the same thing, use the same tactics and some are sympathetic to our enemey and gladly spread their propaganda. (Go to a protest someday and you will see the sympathizers of the mid-east Terrorist organisations)
You, sir/madam need to educate yourself better on what it is John Kerry has done, and what it is we face today with the War on Terror. As well as the actions of many of the Anti_War crowd.
_________________
U.S. Army 1983-1995, 11C1P/11H2P NBTDT

[LewWaters]

Middleroad (more like left of middle), your analysis of O'Neill and Vietnam in general is sorely lacking.

Cavetts audience started off on Kerry's side, yet were siding more with O'Neill at the end.

You say history has shown Vietnam was a waste of money and human beings, but you fail to address the millions of unnecessary deaths as a result of America abandoning it. Aren't they also a waste? History is written by the victors and in this case, it was the anti-war peaceniks and socialists, guided by the Soviet Union, that prevailed. Of course they are going to say it was a waste. However, since Vietnam is one of the things that helped bring about the demise of the Soviet Union, it's hardly a waste.

You also fail to mention John Kerry's use of phoney veterans to back up his charges of war crimes commited, as exposed in several books and by an investigation by Naval Investigative services, as ordered by the Congress.

You also fail to recognize that not only did John Kerry abandon his Swift Boat crews, to make a run for Congress unsuccessfully, I might add, he also abandoned his anti-war "band of brothers" with alignment with them proved disadvantageous to his career. He then reverted back to "war hero" in the early 80's.

If you really wish to question the Swift vets and support John Kerry, may I first suggest you bring your head back out into the daylight and actually research what John Kerry is really all about. It sure isn't doing anything to benefit you.
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Clark County Conservative

[coldwarvet]

Get on one side or the other or be run over.
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Defender of the honor of those in harms way keeping us out of harms way.

"Peace is our Profession"
Strategic Air Command - Motto

USAF 75-79 Security Police

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Good points all of you, thank you.

This seems to be a hit and run.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[Hammer2]

[BB Stacker]

It's obvious Muddyroad..er... Middleroad is trying to focus the discussion in the least damaging way for Kerry. I guess they're giving up on outright denial. Don't try to confuse him with facts. Facts are for people who honestly want to know the truth. Those trying to influence the discussion to their own political purposes will try to divert through sophistry. Their only ally is ignorance, and this site is dedicated to the removal of ignorance not the enhancement of it.

Keep up the good work all you SBVT's and supporters. You continue to inspire.

[Nomorelies]

Middleroad,

If you are really interested in learning the truth, may I suggest that you ready the post by Adam Yoshida at http://www.adamyoshida.com/2004/08/kerrys-dolchstoss.html ?

Perhaps you will be able tgo make up your mind.
_________________
Nomorelies Make a donation HERE

[middleroad]

(Deleted by Admin)

Admin note:

This forum was designed to facilitate the discussion of the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth strong conviction that John Kerry is unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief.

If your defense of John Kerry can only be couched in rhetoric denigrating the fitness of another candidate, then we suggest that you find another venue for that expression.

[Nomorelies]

[cipher]

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Just another happy worker from Shipley's Donuts weighing....

I think every single one of their employees must be visiting this site.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[sevry]

[msindependent]

oh dear, it's time for me to send more money to the SwiftVets.