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JasonBinPNW
Ensign
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Vancouver (not BC), Washington (Not DC)
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 Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Craig wrote: |
Can you provide links to back up your statements above? Especially in relation to your use of "Everyone". |
It's already been done. They are all over this site, and all over the net. But you knew that.
Relativists, you have to love them.
I know, you want to debate what the meaning of the word "is" is, but I'm just not going to get into it with you.
Good night... oh never mind, you're already asleep.
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Semper Fi!
Jason
Proud member of "The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Craig, don't hold your breath. It just sounds more dramatic to use the term "everyone."
Kind of like ...
"everyone snorted coke back then"
"everyone checked-off the 'don't send me overseas' box"
"everyone was torturing prisoners over there"
"everyone has a cell phone" (my daughter's favorite)
"everyone's been saying that all over this board"
Personally, I applaud Kerry for his bravery in speaking out against what some or even many soldiers in Vietnam were doing.
As Rush says, "Words have meaning." |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | Someone needs to clarify this "Kerry said bad things about Vietnam and should have been court martialed" crap.
After weeding through a 50 page document and wasting my time, I find out that article 88 says officers have to say nice things about Nixon and Agnew? This is the worst rule Kerry broke?
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You claim to have served 3 and 1/2 years in SE Asia. Fine.
How did you manage that with absolutely no friggin' idea of what UCMJ says?
What would you call meeting with Madame Binh?
What would you call conspiring to assassinate US Senators?
I know what you will do, you'll spin it or ignore it.
Btw, for the bright boy who thinks that the story appearing in a variety of papers makes it true? I suggest you look up the Lindbergh kidnapping. That story appeared in a lot of papers too. Of course, it was a lie. And there is the story that Tet, '68 was a major defeat for American forces in Vietnam. Another lie. But it appeared in a lot of papers. So did Tailwind.
How is it that those who actually served in the 1st Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division never heard of these people? These crimes? This unit?
Journalists aren't historians. They want stories, not the truth.
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De Oppresso Liber |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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It'd meet my strict standards if I saw a DD-214 on Sgt. Doyle, if I saw some documentary evidence (from DoD or Hanoi's archives).
Winter Soldiers had a whole bunch of people claim to have committed warcrimes in Vietnam. Problem is that some of them had never been in the service, and others had not been in Vietnam.
Do a little serious original history research, learn how to "vet" sources. There are people out there that claim John Kerry met with Madame Binh (John Kerry himself actually). Doesn't make it true.
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Well the Pulitzer committee is good enough for me. I need a tinfoil hat to believe that wasn't credible.
*adjusts hat*
However, I'll humor you. How do you suggest I go about doing "serious" research? Make sure the info is "vetted" by the government, the conservatives that were in charge of this mess?
Ever consider that DD-214 (military records for the uniniated) might be withheld by the government, as these people comprimise them? I'm reasonable, but so far my hand trumps yours. The interview of the Tiger force member, on that link (which you may or may not have heard) sounds very credible. Unless that Tiger force guy is an incredible actor, playing the part for some unfathomable reason (I'd like see you try to explain THAT to me), this report would have to be an incredible conspiracy.
Also why would those members of Tiger Force ever agree to release specific information DD-214 about themselves, if it might mean they would be tried for war crimes? It's clear they are afraid of being caught. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Wait a second...Greenhat is denying the validity of the Pulitzer-Prize winning Tiger Force report?
Since some people don't believe the evidence of mass graves, first-hand accounts by survivors, remaining structures of death camps and government documents in regards to the Holocaust, it's almost inevitable that people would deny the truth behind the Tiger Force atrocities.
Even though the Pulitzer Prize winning series was based on US government documents showing that they shelved the investigation after confirming the atrocities. |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: |
Big question: Don't you guys just wish NOBODY ever told a soul about civilian massacres when our side does it? Wouldn't that be sweet? We'd be able to do anything we wanted! |
No, that isn't what we want. I realize that you find it hard to believe, but American fighting men are professionals who abide by the law of Land Warfare and dispise those who commit atrocities. Personally, I hope they give anyone found guilty of violations of the UCMJ or the Geneva or Hague Conventions in Iraq the maximum punishment.
Not what you wanted to hear, was it?
Then again, I've seen the real cost of atrocities. Come visit. You can see mountains of bones.
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | Wait a second...Greenhat is denying the validity of the Pulitzer-Prize winning Tiger Force report?
Since some people don't believe the evidence of mass graves, first-hand accounts by survivors, remaining structures of death camps and government documents in regards to the Holocaust, it's almost inevitable that people would deny the truth behind the Tiger Force atrocities.
Even though the Pulitzer Prize winning series was based on US government documents showing that they shelved the investigation after confirming the atrocities. |
"based on"
Have you ever done any original document research? Try it. Might find it an interesting experience.
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Eaton wrote: | Well the Pulitzer committee is good enough for me. I need a tinfoil hat to believe that wasn't credible.
*adjusts hat*
However, I'll humor you. How do you suggest I go about doing "serious" research? Make sure the info is "vetted" by the government, the conservatives that were in charge of this mess?
Ever consider that DD-214 (military records for the uniniated) might be withheld by the government, as these people comprimise them? I'm reasonable, but so far my hand trumps yours. The interview of the Tiger force member, on that link (which you may or may not have heard) sounds very credible. Unless that Tiger force guy is an incredible actor, playing the part for some unfathomable reason (I'd like see you try to explain THAT to me), this report would have to be an incredible conspiracy.
Also why would those members of Tiger Force ever agree to release specific information DD-214 about themselves, if it might mean they would be tried for war crimes? It's clear they are afraid of being caught. |
Better keep that tinfoil hat on. Seems that you are completely unaware of how the records system works, or of the Freedom of Information Act. How is it that the authors of this series can claim to have documentary evidence of a coverup (documents obtained under the FOIA), but can't bother to obtain DD214s under the same act?
This isn't that hard, it just reflects the exact same attitude towards verifying data that the Winter Soldier testimony did. In other words, none.
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jgm666us
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 5:54 pm Post subject: Swifties, and truth, period |
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Just a word of support from a retired Land Lover. My thoughts and support are behind you, for some I understand it is painful and churns up old baggage long left. I believe all of you are doing the Correct and morale action. Mr. Kerry is not fit, never will be to do anything but suckup and raise a white flag.
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Jgm666us |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Greenhat wrote: | | Jeremy Eaton wrote: | Well the Pulitzer committee is good enough for me. I need a tinfoil hat to believe that wasn't credible.
*adjusts hat*
However, I'll humor you. How do you suggest I go about doing "serious" research? Make sure the info is "vetted" by the government, the conservatives that were in charge of this mess?
Ever consider that DD-214 (military records for the uniniated) might be withheld by the government, as these people comprimise them? I'm reasonable, but so far my hand trumps yours. The interview of the Tiger force member, on that link (which you may or may not have heard) sounds very credible. Unless that Tiger force guy is an incredible actor, playing the part for some unfathomable reason (I'd like see you try to explain THAT to me), this report would have to be an incredible conspiracy.
Also why would those members of Tiger Force ever agree to release specific information DD-214 about themselves, if it might mean they would be tried for war crimes? It's clear they are afraid of being caught. |
Better keep that tinfoil hat on. Seems that you are completely unaware of how the records system works, or of the Freedom of Information Act. How is it that the authors of this series can claim to have documentary evidence of a coverup (documents obtained under the FOIA), but can't bother to obtain DD214s under the same act?
This isn't that hard, it just reflects the exact same attitude towards verifying data that the Winter Soldier testimony did. In other words, none. |
So, explain to me the flaw in verifying the data in the Winter Soldier testimony. Your quick to attack my "tinfoil hat", but not that great at explaining your argument. |
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