 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
|
 Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:14 am Post subject: deleted |
 |
|
deleted
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nancyhoff
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Mesa, AZ
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
I recall reading somewhere on this site that Kerry and his crew decided
THE NIGHT BEFORE to beach the boat. They also speculated that there might be medals in it for them. I think this info was provided by one of the crew that was on that mission. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lrb111
Captain
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 508
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nancyhoff wrote: | I recall reading somewhere on this site that Kerry and his crew decided
THE NIGHT BEFORE to beach the boat. They also speculated that there might be medals in it for them. I think this info was provided by one of the crew that was on that mission. |
I've been thinking about that discussion about "medals in a mission for them".
I was almost certain it was the day before they went on the Rassman mission. That it was before the Rassman mission makes sense now, since Rassman was in charge of Medals and decorations for his outfit.
Try this and hit ctrl-f a couple times using medals as the search word.
http://www.vnsfvetakerry.com/jim_rassmann.htm
_________________
said Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe. "It is inexcusable to mock service and sacrifice."
well, when even the DNC can see it,,,,, then kerry is toast. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Beldar
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 77
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rood's article < http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/elections/chi-040821rood,1,1611037.story?coll=chi-news-hed > is very clear on the notion that the change in tactics -- facing the ambush and offloading the Ruff-Puffs to deal with the ambushers -- was specifically discussed by Kerry, Droz, and Rood (the three skippers involved) before the mission:
| Quote: | The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that particular operation, had talked to Droz and me beforehand about not responding the way the boats usually did to an ambush.
We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats. We told our crews about the plan.
The Viet Cong in the area had come to expect that the heavily loaded boats would lumber on past an ambush, firing at the entrenched attackers, beaching upstream and putting troops ashore to sweep back down on the ambush site. Often, they were long gone by the time the troops got there.
The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic weapons--Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on the ambush. It worked. We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage ambushes. |
Note that Rood carefully does not say that it was Kerry's idea to begin with, just that Kerry had talked with Rood and Droz beforehand, and that (as the Officer in Tactical Command, if that's the right term) Kerry gave the order as per their joint plan. My theory is that one reason Rood wrote his piece was to defend this change in tactics that he'd agreed to (or perhaps come up with) -- that is, he sees the SwiftVets' attack on Kerry's Silver Star and comments about the tactic as a personal attack on him and the late Lt. Droz. The tactic seems to me to make a lot more sense if (as in the first, main ambush) you're offloading a bunch of infantry to chase the bad guys than (as in the second encounter, in which Kerry chased and killed the VC with the rocket launcher) you're offloading the Swift's own skippers and crew to pretend they're infantry.
At page 290, ToD has Kerry making this as a "snap decision," with Droz and Rood "follow[ing] suit" on Kerry's orders. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nancyhoff
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Mesa, AZ
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I cannot find the entry about Kerry and his crew deciding the night before to beach their boat. I'm pretty sure the quote indicates Kerry came up with the idea and told his crew. They all knew this wasn't standard procedure. They speculated that they will probably get medals or get in trouble. This info might be helpful for NavyChief. Does anyone else remember which crew member disclosed this and where it was published? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vickie
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:33 am Post subject: the bow was raised and his gunners could not fire |
|
|
It seems that Kerry's incompetence led to two ph's and a SS..
Silver Star: So Kerry beached his boat in such a way that the bow was raised and his twin fifty gunner could not fire over the guard rail at the one person ambush. His foward gunner shot the kid in the leg with his 50 caliber but the gun jammed.
Due to kerry's stupid manuever, the kid in the loincloth had an opportunity to blow the swift boat out of the water. The ship was defenseless at that moment and was just sitting a few yards away like a beached whale. A huge prize was laid before a kid with a rocket launcher. For what ever reason the kid choked! Kerry used bad judgement and should have been court martialed.
Kerry shot the fleeing kid down but he admitted that others were firing at the kid from the side and back. It seems that if they are all on a boat with its bow to the beach, that they would all be shooting from the same angle..
Purple Heart 1: How much training do Naval Officer's get with M-79 grenade launcher? He just got too excited, hit the bank with theM-79> He wast dinged by his own schrapnel. No Purple Heart should have been issued and JK should have been reprimanded for using bad judgement.
Purple Heart 3: How much training do Naval Officer's get with a grenade? He was blowing up a rice bin and got a dinged in the butt by his own granade. No Purple Heart should have been issued and JK should have been reprimanded for using bad judgement.
Bronze Star: He did his duty. He picked up a man who had fallen off his boat period. He should have been court martialed for abandoning the other boats.
I have been reading a lot but I am not clear on the 2nd purple heart.
_________________
Vote early. Vote often. The Democrate way...
Last edited by vickie on Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lrb111
Captain
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 508
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:01 am Post subject: Re: the bow was raised and his gunners could not fire |
|
|
| vickie wrote: | It seems that Kerry's incompetence led to two ph's and a SS..
Silver Star: So Kerry beached his boat in such a way that the bow was raised and his twin fifty gunner could not fire over the guard rail at the one person ambush. His foward gunner shot the kid in the leg with his 50 caliber but the gun jammed.
Due to kerry's stupid manuever, the kid in the loincloth had an opportunity to blow the swift boat out of the water. The ship was defenseless at that moment and was just sitting a few yards away like a beached whale. A huge prize was laid before a kid with a rocket launcher. For what ever reason the kid choked! Kerry used bad judgement and should have been court martialed. |
There was yet anothere version "out there" that was reported by two other boats farther off the beach. The folsk on those oats reported that the kid had fired the launcher, and the B-40 had gone between their boats, before kerry beached.
That would mean the launcher was empty.
sorry, i don't have a link....
_________________
said Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe. "It is inexcusable to mock service and sacrifice."
well, when even the DNC can see it,,,,, then kerry is toast. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
