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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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 Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:44 am Post subject: |
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That's a different story relating to his 2nd PH on 20 Feb 69. I've not been able to find a CASREP for any boat damage on that day.
As far as the Purple Hearts, It's PH1 and PH3 that are seriously contested. PH2 is not being seriously contested because there is not enough evidence to pursue it.
We don't fight battles in this war that we're not sure we can win!
Tom
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Maggie1
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 34
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Check out this article. It is written by a USN Combat Merical Officer who served in Vietnam at the hospital in DaNang. He quotes the requirements for a purple heart. I think it will shed some light on this discussion.
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040825-085753-2062r.htm
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Billman
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Haven't seen an account from one of this boat's crew, but Don Droz' widow tells the Boston Globe he respected Kerry:
Boston Globe
note: URl changed to hypertext
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-- Bill in Seattle |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Which has absolutely nothing to do with what happened on the ground in '69. Besides, A Seattle attorney.....?
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Herb
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Fragging |
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| EODARMY wrote: | | Well that's what I was thinking but then I'm not a Navy EOD type. I've also seen somewhere the story of Kerry being struck by a rocket, but the damage report he wrote on his boat doesn't seem to support this does it? |
The Spot Report for the wound that day puts the wound BACK IN HIS BUTT where it belong.
Spot report shows it is in his THIGH (aka BUTT):
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Spot_Kerry.pdf
The awards are linked here:
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice
He cannot get "hit by a rocket" or shrapnel from one unless a chunck of the boat gets taken out too. No such report from anyone, or such damage to boat.
It is much easier to show that the DOCUMENTS prove Kerry moved the wound (time, place, and body part) than to argue "was fire"/"was not"
successfully against a biased press AND true believers of Kerry. (Is there a difference?)
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Any Crew on PCF 43 Boat (Droz) Support Kerry's story? |
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| EODARMY wrote: | Any Crew on PCF 43 Boat (Droz) Support Kerry's 13 March story as PCF 43 was immediately behind Kerry's PCF 94 boat when it was supposedly struck by the 2nd mine?
Another item strikes me as odd is Kerry's buttocks wound he claims from a mine detonation close to his boat PCF 94, thus ejecting Rassman. Naval mines are not designed to produce fragmentation, rather to break the back of a vessel. Thus you hear the story of the PCF 3 boat being lifted out of the water by 2-6 ft. As an old Explosive Ordnance Disposal guy it strikes me as odd that he would get fragged by an underwater mine! |
Hate to disagree with you magnificent, master of blowing things up. But these were land mines adapted for water use. 
I'm looking at a lot a SPOT REPORTS and I see a lot of shrapnel wounds caused by mines. Perhaps the shrapnel is parts of the boats getting shredded? I don't know - but lots of guys were catching shrapnel from water mines.
- instigator
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Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work?
Last edited by NavyChief on Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Droz boat PCF-43 |
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| EODARMY wrote: | | It would be very interesting to hear these guys as they were immediately behind Kerry on the 13th. |
They might have been immediately behind Kerry at one time but when the mine blew Kerry hauled A$$ - everyone else went to the rescue
- instigator
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Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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rmeals
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 45
Location: California/Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:39 am Post subject: Crew Lists on the 13th |
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Is there one place where there is a complete list of all the crew members on each of the five boats on March 13th? If so, how many, of those who are not deceased, have spoke up about that day? Additionally, out of curriousity, did John O'Neil inherit any of them when he took over PCF-94 a month or two later?
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:14 am Post subject: Re: Crew Lists on the 13th |
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| rmeals wrote: | | Is there one place where there is a complete list of all the crew members on each of the five boats on March 13th? If so, how many, of those who are not deceased, have spoke up about that day? Additionally, out of curriousity, did John O'Neil inherit any of them when he took over PCF-94 a month or two later? |
Unfortunately, I've asked this many times. And they may just not have the time and resources to put together that kind of FAQ; although they have been getting money to support the cause. It would be extremely useful. I don't know if they realize that, themselves. They could include an overview of operations up which rivers, the schematics of a Swift boat (Rassman, for example, was not on a narrow running board, but a two foot wide deck, assuming he was coming forward), of course crew compliments and rank, passenger compliments (for ex, was Rassman alone on the 94, with another SF, with a few Nung, etc), the definitive order of approach (since their own book, Unfit, actually got it wrong), the chain and order of events following the explosion, the complete report of damage (not omitting reference to three bullet holes that people might later discover), and explanation of document codes and how to read these documents (DTG formats, etc), and so on. But the ones who were there would know. I'd volunteer to help. But no one has contacted me in that regard - and I'd have to be provided with the information (it's nothing I'd know, myself). |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Try this...for starts
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6500
- instigator
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Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:54 am Post subject: |
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As others wrote there - thank you, that is useful. That's a good job. |
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The Citizen
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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I have constructed a partial list of the boat crews for the March 13, 1969 'bronze star incident' from the book, "Unfit for Command", this website and the article by Mr. Dobbs in the Washington Post some 10 days ago. I cannot vouch for its accuracy . . . but here it is.
Near left bank:
PCF-3:
OinC: Richard Pease
crew: ????
????
????
????
????
PCF-23:
OinC: Jack Chenoweth
crew: Van O'Dell
????
????
????
????
PCF-51:
OinC: Larry Thurlow
crew: Robert Lambert
????
????
????
????
Near right bank:
PCF-94:
OinC: John Kerry
crew: Michael Medeiros
Dell Sandusky
Gene Thorson
Tommy Belodeau (dec)
Fred Short
PCF-43:
OinC: Don Droz (dec)
crew: Wayne Langhofer
Robert Hornberger
Lloyd Jones
Steven Miller
Michael Modansky
In addition thee other members of Mr. Kerry's boat crews are mentioned.
The first, of course, is David Alston who was on PCF-94 but wounded and apparently replaced by Mr. Short prior to March 13, 1969. The other two are Rich O'Mara and Jim Steffes . . . but I do not know on which boats they served or when. So far as I know, of the SF troops and Nung soldiers on board that day in 1969, only Mr. Rassmann has been
mentioned.
For Mr. Kerry's PCF-44 boat in late 1968, I have
PCF-44:
OinC: John Kerry
crew: James Wasser
Steve Gardner
Bill Zaladonis
Pat Runyon
Steven Hatch
Please correct this list if it is in error and add to it if you know of others. |
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Citizen wrote: |
Please correct this list if it is in error and add to it if you know of others. |
I tend to agree that Alston was sent right home. You can still see, today, how bad his injury was. I'm sure he knew Kerry. But that was the whole point of not having to be on Kerry's boat. They all lived and worked together. I guess you can't say any more because it's been restricted, here, as a topic.
The crew of the 3 boat are all listed in the spot report. All six were injured. So that leaves 23 and 51. I don't know where you'd look for that. And Chenoweth and Thurlow have never said, probably thinking it unimportant. |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Runyon never served on PCF-44. The other crewman was Drew Whitlow.
Runyon "claims" to have been on the 02 Dec 68 Skimmer mission. That would have been the only time Runyou served with Kerry.
Tom
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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rmeals
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 45
Location: California/Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:25 am Post subject: PCF-3 |
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A possible list for PCF-3:
Richard W. Pees, LTJG
Earl N. Hollister, GMG3
Leslie L. Vorphal, RD3
Freddie Lee Arp, EN2
John N. Duffy, BM3
Walter Wolf, GMG3
Earl Hollister is deceased. I believe Leslie Vorphal has spoken in favor of Kerry's version. I don't know for sure if the others were there on March 13, 1969.
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Last edited by rmeals on Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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