SwiftVets.com

[diogenes]

I'm a potential Kerry voter that recently heard about your organization. I'm interested in what you say, but I have some questions.

1) If your group is nonpartisan, as you claim, why wait until May to make your case? Six months ago, the effect might be a different democratic nominee, but now surely your activities will increase the chances of having a Republican president. To the Democrats among you, how do you justify this timing? To the others, how to you justify your claim to be non-partisan?

2) Kerry's web site is packed with military records - which specifically do you feel are missing, and what would it show if they were there?

3) You want Americans to "hear the truth about his service and about his charges about war crimes", but your letter and website give no details about what this "truth" is. What exactly makes Kerry "unfit"? I'm aware of the controversy concerning the first of his three purple hearts, and I'm aware that many veterans strongly disagree with his post-war protest activities, so let's not rehash that - nor do I want to hear from people that know him by reputation only.

The claim your group makes is that his old comrades in arms by and large do not support him. I would definitely like to hear from those that knew Kerry and have something concrete to say about his service record and/or leadership skills. What was it exactly in your personal interactions with Kerry 40 years ago that makes you believe he is unfit to be president?

[Me#1You#10]

[sparky]

Diogenes, those are very thoughtful and important questions. So far, they haven't been able to answer what records they think is missing except his medical records. But both candidates permitted journalists to view their medical records in the same way.

As for what the hidden mysterious documents would show, the fact that they can't say what documents are missing hasn't stopped them from speculating about what "they'd show" and it's gone off the deep end to involving everything but half-alien babies.

Really, what it boils down to, if you take the time to drill the truth out of these folks is that they oppose Kerry's protests against the Vietnam War. Since this won't hurt him electorally, they're hoping that a smear campaign full of innuendo and half-baked conspiracies will.

[kerry-d-bunker]

I found out about this 'innocent' little group on mediamatters.org which has a full expose' on John O'Neill.

What a joke! Check it out:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200405040004

http://mediamatters.org/items/200405050004

Sure they are just some folks who want to enlighten us; sure!

[95 bxl]

So, of course, if O'Neill was a documented democrat, that would make all the difference to those of you supporting a war criminal like Kerry.... right?

You'd all start to oppose him like he was a pariah, much, I'm sure, like you all opposed Bill Clinton... right? If O'Neill was a democrat...

[kerry-d-bunker]

As a person who worked closely with Richard Nixon, the credibility of O'Neill is a dubious as Nixon's! Quite pathetic that posters here believe what this partisan politician has to say. But then, look who is in the White House: proves the point that ignorant folks vote.

[eecee]

[carpro]

Of course ignorant people vote, Kerry-D. Clinton was elected twice. It is typical of Kerry supporters that they believe anyone who doesn't believe as they do are ignorant. It's called arrogance.

[Jim]

Diogenes, I too recently came to this board to question whether or not the controversy about Kerry, ...his war injury record, ...his medal tossing et al was real or merely political. I did not, however, ask questions as well as you did and I applaud your writing style.

I think that there are indeed some people here that do truly question Kerry's ability to be President...but its clear to me that there are also some that just flat out hate him, because of nothing more substantial than politics. It's starting to seem that that second group may be bigger than the first.

I too would like to hear from some of the SwiftBoats Vets that served with Kerry, or at least had some direct experience with him in Vietnam to resolve this. If there is a real case to be made against Kerry (whom I'm no real fan of, but who may get my vote as the lesser of two evils) I too would like to hear it, preferably with some proof.

Otherwise it seems to to me that the Nixon era evidence in the websites above is starting to pile up. In the end, I'd truly like to see words from someone who served with Kerry to finally make up my mind whom to vote for.

[sparky]

Thanks, kerry-d-bunker, for that information on O'Neill! Great site by someone who knows all about the rightwing media.

eecee wrote: "But they do criticize Kerry for releasing his records in exactly the same way as Bush did."

Well, not quite. Kerry has posted everything for all to see on his website. Bush hasn't and won't.

Jim wrote:
"In the end, I'd truly like to see words from someone who served with Kerry to finally make up my mind whom to vote for."

Jim, your words are so honest and sincere. I don't think we'll be hearing from any of Kerry's nine brothers on this board. But they've issued numerous public statements about what it was like to be on that boat with him.

[diogenes]

[quote="Me#1You#10"][quote="diogenes"]The claim your group makes is that his old comrades in arms by and large do not support him. I would definitely like to hear from [b]those that knew Kerry[/b] and have something concrete to say about his service record and/or leadership skills. What was it exactly in [b]your personal interactions with Kerry 40 years ago[/b] that makes you believe he is unfit to be president?[/quote]

You both misconstrue the member class and mis-state their goal, probably intentionally, but I could be wrong.

While a few might qualify, this gathering of Swift Vets isn't limited, as you imply, to those having had direct contact with Kerry during his Vietnam/post-Vietnam activity. His direct "comrade-in-arms" number in the thousands (the Swifties), and his extended "comrade-in-arms" number in the MILLIONS (the Vietnam Veterans). This IS a gathering of those who are more than familiar with Kerry and what he was about in his disgraceful, politically opportunistic smear upon the honor of ALL Vietnam veterans, the Swifties in particular. That KNOWLEDGE was no secret to those of us who experienced it, and will NEVER be forgotten. Nor will it be diminished by disingenous, mitigating, self-serving apologetics from that same lying mouth.

I'd suggest you simply read their letter to Kerry if you want to know why they think he's unfit to be President. It's stated quite succinctly.

[url]http://www.swiftvets.com/LettertoKerry.htm[/url][/quote]


The statement in the letter is succinct, but vague. There are no concrete objects about his "unfitness" other than political positions, and no concrete discussion of what you think he's hiding (or is that another misreading?)

And my misreading was not intentional--its certainly suggested by the media release, which says the letter is "signed by Swift Boat veterans at all levels and from the entire political spectrum; the entire chain of command during the period Kerry served in Vietnam; veterans who participated in the engagements resulting in his medals; and the majority of officers who served with him in Coastal Division 11, the unit in which he spent most of his four month tour of duty". The implication that the authors of the letter have some direct experience of Kerry is also suggested by "we believe the American public is entitled to the truth about his service" - this suggests that you, as vets and comrades, know something about his service that I, the public don't.

If that's the case, then let me know. If no-one in this group actually knows Kerry (beyond what I can read myself in the news) then--well, you've got a vote, and so do I, and we both have the right to voice an opinion, but I don't particularly see why I should weight your opinion more heavily just because you worked the same job as Kerry did back in the 60s.

One again: if anyone has personal experiences to share that might affect my vote, I'm interested. If nobody does - well, that's information also, of a different kind.

[sparky]

http://www.swiftvets.com/LettertoKerry.htm

I looked that over and just found many of the things we've gone in circles about here:

o Describing themselves as those "who served directly with you" was
designed to sound like they're in a position to speak firsthand of his
character. While technically true, I doubt very many of the undersigned
actually have ever been in the same room with Kerry.

John O'Neill also played this sleight-of-hand when he said he served on
the same boat as Kerry without mentioning it was months after Kerry
left Vietnam.

o Did they really think anyone wouldn't ask why they aren't expecting
Bush to

[blackfrancis]