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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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 Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The guy does get around.... |
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dfountain3928
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| But the point is still this, what boat do all of the other Swifties put Rassman on?? If they can't remember maybe he wasn't even there. |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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In UFC they've put him on the 94 Boat!
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:40 am Post subject: |
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He almost certainly was on the 94 boat, but I'd sure like to ask all those "journalists" exactly who they talked to to have gotten such disparate answers to the same question of the same sources.  |
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ontheright
Ensign
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Question- how did Rassman get thrown into the river from the wheelhouse? |
Is this a trick question or just multiple choice?  |
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| ontheright wrote: | | Quote: | | Question- how did Rassman get thrown into the river from the wheelhouse? |
Is this a trick question or just multiple choice? |
YES  |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:53 am Post subject: |
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my memory of this is:
he was windsurfing off Nantucket |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Where in the world is Jim Rassman? |
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| drjohn wrote: | | 28 Jan 1998, John Kerry in the Congressional Record: “There was the time we were carrying Special Forces up a river and a mine exploded under our boat sending it 2 feet into the air. …the boat made a high speed turn to starboard and the Green Beret kept going--straight into the river.” (This would be PCF 94) |
Yes. In this story.
| Quote: | | Johnkerry.com 17 Jan 2004: "On March 13, 1969, Rassman, a Green Beret, was traveling down the Bay Hap river in a boat behind Kerry’s when both were ambushed by exploding land mines and enemy fire coming from the shore. Kerry was hit in the arm, while a mine blew Rassman’s boat out of the water." (This would be PCF 43) |
They misrepresented a couple of things here. The mine exploded under PCF-3, not PCF-43. Kerry was not "hit in the arm", he hit his arm on the bulkhead. And Rassmann was on Kerry's boat, PCF-94. This is verified by Rassmann and eyewitnesses. Try again, Johnkerry.com.
Douglas Brinkley, Atlantic Monthly 10 Mar 2004: "For example, when talking about the day Kerry charged up the river to save Army Lieutenant Jim Rassman who had been blown off a neighboring Swift boat by an explosion.." (Uncertain which boat- in Brinkley's book it is PCF 35)
The boat was PCF-3, Lt Pease's boat. Try again, Doug.
| Quote: | | LA Times 5 Jul 2004 : "A blast rocked PCF-94, pitching Kerry against the bulkhead and wrenching his arm. Another charge blew Army Lt. James Rassman into the river from another boat." (Uncertain which boat) |
Close, but no cigar LA Times. There was only one explosion. Looks like they used Brinkley's account. But Brinkley contradicted himself in the same paragraph. Try again, LA Times.
| Quote: | | 5 Aug 2004 James Rassman on CNN Inside Politics:: "Well, first, I was not part of John Kerry's command. I was a Special Forces officer who happened to be on his boat at that time. |
Good question, James. Why were you on Kerry's boat? You were the XO of A404 Detachment -- a problem child within the Special Forces who was constantly transferred to do less damage. Your duties were pushing paper back on the WASHTENAW COUNTY with the 9th Infantry. Try again, James.
| Quote: | Mr. Thurlow's recollection of what occurred is not accurate. We had the boat hit the mine to our left. And John immediately had his driver, Del Sandusky , turn to the left and head towards it.
And it was at that time that our gunner on the bow got his gun knocked out and he started screaming for another weapon. I ran another weapon up to me, and we hit something or something hit us. There was an explosion, and I was blown off the boat to the right. " (PCF 94) |
The mine was remotely detonated, James. Surely a Special Forces Officer would have known that? Your guys captured the Vietcong and interrogated him. Try again, James.
If Kerry immediately turned left (by the way, Navy says to port), he would have run right into the fish stakes. And PCF-94 was in the lead towards the right bank of the river. Try again, James.
Gee, well, ah -- I'm not the smartest but if you had already turned to port directly towards PCF-3, had enough time for Medeiros' gun to jam or "get knocked out", and then he screamed for another, and then you ran and got it, and then ran the gun up to him, and then an explosion hit PCF-94 and blew you off the boat off the starboard side, how long would that take? The river was only 75 yards wide. I could have swam that twice before all this happened before PCF-94 would have run aground on the left bank or collided with PCF-3. Try again, James.
| Quote: | | 8 Aug 2004 Aaron Brown of CNN: BROWN: “And that's what they were doing on the 13th of March, 1969, as one of four other boats in their convoy struck a mine. The battle was joined. And when Kerry directed Sandusky to make a sharp turn, a special forces soldier riding with them fell in the water.” (PCF 94) |
Close, very close... Aaron. But now you are using Kerry's recollection from 1998.
| Quote: | | 10 Aug 2004 James Rassman OpinionJournal.com: “The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river.” |
Now I confused 
| Quote: | | “The flotilla… was cruising along a narrow canal, with Kerry’s boat toward the front, when a mine detonated, throwing one of the crafts two feet into the air and knocking out its engine. In the Swift boat behind it, Rassman was eating a chocolate chip cookie in the pilothouse when his craft was rocked by an explosion. Before he knew it, Rassman was thrown into the water…” Kranish et al, John F. Kerry, 2004 (PCF 23) |
The engines were fubar'd but they sputtered for a time. I let this pass as journalist style.
Still don't know which boat, eh Kranish? Try again.
Rassmann said he was ON the pilothouse, not IN the pilothouse. If he was IN the pilothouse he couldn't have fallen off -- he would have got banged around inside... The picture this conjures up is just too funny. Try again, Kranish.
| Quote: | | Question- how did Rassman get thrown into the river from the wheelhouse? |
Good question, drjohn. The story has been so distorted it's difficult to tell where Rassmann was. Another version was he was aft with the body bag which contained the pieces of the CO of the NUNG soldiers who had been blown up by a booby trap earlier in the day. He probably fell off the boat when Kerry ran away 3.2 miles down the river. And this must be why he was awarded a Purple Heart that day -- water in the lungs. Or Kerry pulled out the M-79 grenade launcher and took a shot at him, thinking he was a Vietcong sapper, swimming towards PCF-3 to finish it off
- instigator
_________________
Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work?
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | | PCF-3 hit the mine. He's put himself on PCF-3, PCF-43, and PCF-94 on different occasions. |
His accounts have been confused, contradictory and enough to land him in that interrogation room jail on NYPD Blue, as it were.
If Droz had the MSF contingent of Nung, then Rassman should have been with them. Apparently, Doug Reese, who supports Kerry (or did), says he was the other advisor that day, who accompanied the RF/PF out and back from Cai Nuoc. Others had once suggested it seemed unlikely Rassman would have been given 'charge' of the Nung by himself. But perhaps they didn't need him for anything, and was just along for the ride.
So Rassman abandons his guys, or in their own way they tell him to 'di-di', and he's on board with rice-blowing bud, K,JF. Couldn't have been #35. But to be fair, Corsi put 35 right in UFC. So everyone got it wrong.
But the problem with his story is that it is so at odds with the established fact. My sense is that one part of Rassman's story is accurate. The disappearing boat. He claims all five left him. But the fact is, he felt abandoned. He was alone. Worse, he'd been abandoned by his good bud, K,JF. I thought we were 'brahs', or 'bros', or . . and look what you did to me. I mean, in other words, I think that's probably how he saw it. He saw a boat, leaving. And then he couldn't see it anymore.
As for the rest, his swimming to the bank, his sinking/swimming/sinking confusion, and of course just the factual complaint that he somehow missed seeing FOUR other PCF boats probably not too many yards away, pretty much discredits his account long before he's 'upside down' on the cargo netting with our hero, K,JF racing to the bow, under withering fire, dropping to all fours (says Sandusky), covered in blood, pulling him up first with his good arm, then the bad, as they both scurry away apparently having absorbed every single round themselves, having spared the 94 even a single bullet hole (which is probably not what one should do). |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Sevry,
You're confused, Doug was on the 28 Feb 69 Mission and not on the 13 Mar 69 Mission. You may want to rework your piece.
Tom
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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JimRobson
Lieutenant
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 242
Location: Jacksonville FL
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Are we discussing this topic or not? Just trying to follow chain of command.
_________________
ETN2 PTF2 (Littlecreek Underwater Demolition Unit 2 1963)
 
http://www.thewebplace.com/ |
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Close, very close... Aaron. But now you are using Kerry's recollection from 1998.
Quote:
10 Aug 2004 James Rassman OpinionJournal.com: “The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river.”
Instigator and Tom
The thing that I noticed about this is that Aaron Brown said it aloud as a recap of the event. Those guys were right there and they did not seek to amplify or correct, making it a tacit endorsement of Brown's assertion. This makes one think that this account is probably closer to the real story as opposed to the scripted one they regugitate.
Isn't it amazing that so many different accounts can be had from the same people who were at the same event? |
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RickInDallas
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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These are all great questions for Mr. Rassmann...
If you poke around the Orchid Web Website, at:
http://www.orchidweb.org/welcome/aostruvol.html
You can find Mr. Rassmann's email address:
James Rassmann, Chair — Florence, Oregon —
judcomaos@hotmail.com
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an answer. Though it might not be a wasted exercise in forwarding these questions to him. |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| RickInDallas wrote: | These are all great questions for Mr. Rassmann...
If you poke around the Orchid Web Website, at:
http://www.orchidweb.org/welcome/aostruvol.html
You can find Mr. Rassmann's email address:
James Rassmann, Chair — Florence, Oregon —
judcomaos@hotmail.com
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an answer. Though it might not be a wasted exercise in forwarding these questions to him. |
If you want to write to Rassman, email is: j.rassmann@winfinity.com
I think he is agreeable to emails.
- instigator
_________________
Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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To answer the question:
Discussing the various accounts of Rassman's activities that day is fine.
Bringing in the insinuations and yellow journalism sort of stuff that is springing up on other sites isn't.
High road.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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