 |
SwiftVets.com Service to Country
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
cipher Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 902
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, from what I can see, AFI 48-123 Medical Examination and Medical Standards (old number AFR 160-43) would be the operative instruction, assuming they are trying to reference a requirement for a flight physical exam. And that's not even CLOSE to the AFM reference.
Geeze, I *hate* amateurs. _________________ USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
air_vet PO2
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 374
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sometime in the last 10 years or so, the AF completely revamped ALL its publications. If I remember correctly, the 35 series of AF manuals all dealt with personnel matters. Most units didn't have the full 35 series because they were so voluminous.
I though I had an old AF 00 index around someplace but can't find it so I can't look it up.
I was an aircraft maintenance officer and not a personnel officer so AFM 35-13 doesn't ring a bell, but I can't say such a manual DIDN'T exist back in the early '70s. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
cipher Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 902
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
That's just the POINT.
An AFM would NOT be a directive. A directive would HAVE to be an AFI or AFR (an "Air Force Instruction" or "Air Force Regulation" for any civilians out there).
But that fingerprint sure is damning evidence.
(Can I say damning? If not, then censor it) _________________ USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
flagreen Seaman
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 175
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
From Drudge - The Widow on Nightline....
Quote: | XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU SEPT 09, 2004 22:45:32 ET XXXXX
Marjorie Connell — widow of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, the reported author of memos suggesting that Bush did not meet the standards for the Texas Air National Guard — questions whether the documents are real on tonight's NIGHTLINE, sources tell DRUDGE.
Transcript:
I WAS ANGRY, BECAUSE HERE THEY ARE GOING BACK AND PULLING RECORDS OF A MAN WHO IS DECEASED TWENTY YEARS, WHO IS NOT HERE TO EXPLAIN WHAT ANY OF THESE DOCUMENTS SAID OR SUPPOSED TO HAVE SAID, AND I JUST FOUND IT APPALLING. I WAS SICK THAT HERE WITHOUT WARNING HIS PICTURES ARE UP THERE, HIS NAME IS BEING BATTLED BACK AND FORTH AND I, LIVID I GUESS IS A BETTER WORD FOR IT."
"I THINK THERE WAS SO MUCH UNTRUTHS BEING SAID THAT THAT FRUSTRATED ME AND THAT I KNEW THAT IF JERRY WERE ALIVE TODAY THAT HE WOULD JUST, NUMBER ONE HE WOULD BE TURNING OVER IN HIS GRAVE TO KNOW THAT A DOCUMENT SUCH AS THIS WOULD BE USED AGAINST A FELLOW GUARDSMAN."
"THAT IS WHAT AGGRAVATED ME SO MUCH, WAS THAT HE CAN NOT BE HERE TO SAY AND YET THEY CAN DRAG HIS NAME ONTO TELEVISION, MAKING BAD ACCUSATIONS ABOUT OUR PRESIDENT AND A MAN THAT HE RESPECTED AND I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT HE THOUGHT THIS YOUNG MAN AS A SECOND LIEUTENANT OR FIRST LIEUTENANT WAS AN EXCELLENT AVIATOR, AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO BE IN THE GUARD AND WAS VERY HAPPY TO HAVE HIM BECOME A MEMBER OF THE 111TH F-I-S."
"NUMBER ONE, HE WOULD NOT HAVE TYPED BECAUSE HE DID NOT TYPE. NUMBER TWO, THE WORDING IN THESE DOCUMENTS IS VERY SUSPECT TO ME. I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT, IT LOOKS LIKE SOME THINGS MAY HAVE BEEN PICKED UP OUT OF A DOCUMENT AND THEN OTHER THINGS JUST MADE FICTITIOUSLY TO FILL IN THINGS, TO MAKE THEM FLOW. I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS IS HIS WORDS, MY LATE HUSBAND'S WORDS."
"NOT A TYPIST, DEFINITELY NOT A TYPIST. WE HAD NO COMPUTERS AT HOME BUT HE WASN'T A TYPIST, AND WHAT IS REMARKABLE TO ME IS THAT HE WAS A PERSON WHO DID NOT TAKE OR MAKE COPIOUS NOTES. HE CARRIED EVERYTHING IN HIS MIND AND HE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO MAKE NOTES."
"I AM STILL PRESENTLY LOOKING FOR OTHER DOCUMENTS. I HAVE FOUND SOME THAT SAY THE 147TH ON THEM AND THEY GO BACK TO 1970. I CAN NOT FIND ANY AT THIS MOMENT THAT HAVE ANY 1972 INDICATIONS ON THEM OTHER THAN A, AND I TOLD HER THAT, A FLIGHT SCHEDULE THAT HE HAD JUST SIGNED HIS NAME TO."
"UNFORTUNATELY WHEN WE MOVED I PUT THINGS IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS AND I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE EVERYTHING IS AT THIS MOMENT AND I WAS SEARCHING FOR THEM AND I STILL HAVE NOT FOUND ANY OTHER DOCUMENTS. I DO HAVE ALL OF HIS FLIGHT RECORDS THOUGH AND THEY ARE IN MY HANDS."
"HE DISCUSSED WITH ME HOW PROUD HE WAS TO BE ABLE TO GO AND PIN THE WINGS ON YOUNG GEORGE AND TO MEET THEN MR. BUSH, I'VE FORGOTTEN IF HE WAS WITH THE CIA OR WHAT OFFICE HE HELD AT THAT TIME AND BARBARA BUSH."
"HE LEFT THE 147TH, FLEW TO WHEREVER GEORGE GOT HIS WINGS AND JERRY PINNED THEM ON HIM AND HE WAS, CAME HOME JUST, HE TOLD ME ABOUT THAT AND HOW PROUD HE WAS TO HAVE MET THE FAMILY."
"HE WOULD JUST WRITE LITTLE NOTES ON THE BACK OF ANYTHING. UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY AS THE CASE MAY BE, IF HE NEEDED TO JOT SOMETHING DOWN HE WOULD JOT IT ON ANY PAPER THAT HE COULD FIND, ON A CARD, LIKE A CALLING CARD THAT YOU WOULD HAVE, OR JUST LITTLE BITS OF PAPER. HE ALWAYS KNEW WHERE EVERYTHING WAS, AND IF HE NEEDED TO PULL IT OUT OF HIS WALLET ON A LITTLE NOTE OR SOMETHING, BUT HE JUST DIDN'T TAKE MANY NOTES."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Filed By Matt Drudge
Reports are moved when circumstances warrant
http://www.drudgereport.com for updates
(c)DRUDGE REPORT 2004
|
Awesome!!!!!
Last edited by flagreen on Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
vet_supporter Lt.Jg.
Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 114
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is good. Captain's Quarters http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/ reports that :
Quote: | The Post even forced CBS to reveal that the documents were "authenticated" via a phone conversation with retired Major General Bobby W. Hodges, Killian's superior: |
Then goes over to www.opensecrets.org and finds that the guy is a DEAN supporter.
HODGES, ROBERT
AUSTIN,TX 78731
SELF EMPLOYED/ENGINEER
6/30/2003
$250
Dean, Howard
So, no one at CBS apparently actually had the documents authenticated. IMO, they simply called the person's phone number that was given to them by the same source that gave them these "memos". Who conveniently was a DEAN supporter.
So this fraud has left them holding the bag because they were naive enough to accept at face value the source that provided these papers. I guess it never occurred to them that although the guy has been deceased since 1984, his widow and son were still around and ready to challenge the authenticity of the "memos". And that people familiar with military protocol would also be willing to speak out.
A new day in accountabiltiy for the MSM. Thanks to the people who made an issue of this on the internet, CBS was caught. Now CBS needs to be forced to reveal WHO gave them the forged documents so that person or persons can be held accountable. You can be assured that if this was from a conservative, that's all you'd hear from the MSM, who gave these bogus documents. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Interested Seaman Recruit
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 37 Location: PA
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.ec47.com/varorder.htm
this looks like its legit (but what the hell do I know?)
Quote: | DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE
6994 SECURITY SQUADRON (USAFSS)
APO SAN FRANCISCO 96307
SPECIAL ORDER 22 AUGUST 1970
G-35
Each of the following airmen, Det. 2, 6994 Scty Sq, APO San Francisco 96337 holding a
principal duty assignment in a First Priority (crew member) AFSC and having completed
a minimum of ten (10) combat missions is awarded the Basic Aircrew Member Badge (Permanent). Authority: AFM 35-13, para 5-9a(2).
SSGT CARMEN R. ADAMS SGT RONALD V. MORING
SSGT FRANKLIN L. BOWLBY A1C JAMES D. MCGEE
SSGT THOMAS L. CHARLES A1C MICHAEL D. MCMAHON
SGT STEVEN D. CHRISTNER A1C MARK F. NELSON
SGT DAVID M. DAURIA TSGT JULIAS C. PHILLIPS
SGT GEORGE W. EVANECKO SGT LARRY P. PRATT
SSGT WILLIAM A. FRIZZELL A1C MELVIN A. SALTZ
SSGT RICHARD L. HARRIS SSGT GEORGE E. STATEN
SGT HENRY P. HARTMAN SGT GEORGE SYKES, JR.
SSGT MICHAEL A. HIGGINS SSGT ISAAC WARE
A1C CHARLES E. MARTIN SGT ROBERT C. WILLE
SGT JAMES W. MASON A1C JOHN C. YUNKER
A1C MICHAEL MCINTOSH SGT PETER T. ZAMBONI
A1C THOMAS METZLER
FOR THE COMMANDER
WALTER A. MCDONALD, MSgt, USAF DISTRIBUTION
Assistant Administration Officer 7 - 6902 Spt Sq (CBPO-SA) (Ea Indiv)
1 - Pac Scty Rgn (DAP)
3 - Det. 2, 694 Scty Sq (DP) (Ea Indiv)
3 - Each Individual
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
air_vet PO2
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 374
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
It wouldn't show up on that page of pubs that were of interest to reservists, because I suspect it was a personnel shop manual. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
cipher Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 902
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
Interested --
Yes, that is the ONLY legit reference I found, too. And I think it's a typo. They DO happen. _________________ USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
air_vet PO2
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 374
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Interested wrote: | http://www.ec47.com/varorder.htm
this looks like its legit (but what the hell do I know?)
|
Nice work - I think 35-13 is legit ... things would have been so much easier if the AF hadn't renumbered all the publications in the '90s. (I smell a McPeak!)
Last edited by air_vet on Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Interested Seaman Recruit
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 37 Location: PA
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
cipher wrote: | Interested --
Yes, that is the ONLY legit reference I found, too. And I think it's a typo. They DO happen. |
all the other references I've seen are either direct copies of a single quote or paraphrases of it and all on bushwahwahwah.boohoohoo sites. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
azpatriot Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 593 Location: Arizona
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
cipher wrote: | Well, from what I can see, AFI 48-123 Medical Examination and Medical Standards (old number AFR 160-43) would be the operative instruction, assuming they are trying to reference a requirement for a flight physical exam. And that's not even CLOSE to the AFM reference.
Geeze, I *hate* amateurs. |
Thats the only thing I'm finding here also is AFI 48-123 and your right it's not even close _________________ Proud to be an American! and member of the PAJAMAHADEEN
FedEx Kinko's: When it absolutely, positively has to be forged overnight  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
RichardP Seaman Recruit
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 21
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
You guys gave this thing legs, and now it had boots, and now it is stompoing CBS and Dan Blather into the nether regions.
GOOD JOB you guys, WELL DONE!!!
The MSM is in deep kaka now, and the Dem party and their chairman in particular are gonna look like fools.
This is just priceless!!  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
arymann PO3
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 269 Location: GA
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wonder what's going on at Campaign HQ and DNC right about now?
This is what The American Spectator speculates.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7096
Quote: | Anatomy of a Forgery
By The Prowler
Published 9/10/2004 12:09:06 AM
More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian.
The oppo researcher claimed the source was "a retired military officer." According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the DNC, as well as the Kerry campaign.
"More than a couple people heard about the papers," says the DNC staffer. "I've heard that they ended up with the Kerry campaign, for them to decide to how to proceed, and presumably they were handed over to 60 Minutes, which used them the other night. But I know this much. When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity."
The concerns arose from the sourcing. "It wasn't clear that our source for the documents would have had access to them. Our person couldn't confirm from what file, from what original source they came from."
The documents that CBS News used were not documents from any of Bush's personnel files from his time in the National Guard. Rather, CBS News stated that they were documents uncovered in the personnel files of Killian. That would explain why the White House or the Pentagon had never before released or even seen them.
According to a Kerry campaign source, there was little gossip about the supposedly hot documents inside the office of the campaign on McPherson Square. "Those documents were not something anyone was talking about or trying to generate buzz on," says the staffer. "It wasn't like there were small groups of people talking about this as a bombshell. I think people here weren't sure what to make of it, because provenance of these documents was uncertain."
A CBS producer, who initially tipped off The Prowler about the 60 Minutes story, says that despite seeking professional assurances that the documents were legitimate, there was uncertainty even among the group of producers and researchers working on the story.
"The problem was we had one set of documents from Bush's file that had Killian calling Bush 'an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot.' And someone who Killian said 'performed in an outstanding manner.' Then you have these new documents and the tone and content are so different."
The CBS producer said that some alarms bells went off last week when the signatures and initials of Killian on the documents in hand did not match up with other documents available on the public record, but producers chose to move ahead with the story. "This was too hot not to push. If there were doubts, those people didn't show it," says the producer, who works on a rival CBS News program.
Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign. "There is a school of thought here that the Kerry people dumped this in our laps, figuring we'd do the heavy lifting on the story. That maybe they had doubts about these documents but hoped we'd get more information," says the producer. "If that's the case, then we're bigger fools than we already appear to be judging by all the chatter about how these documents could be forgeries."
ABC News' political unit held a conference call at 7:00 p.m. Thursday evening to discuss the memo and its potential ramifications should the documents turn out to be a forgery. That meeting took place around the time that the deceased Killian's son made public statements questioning the documents' authenticity.
According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.
|
Last edited by arymann on Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
cipher Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 902
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think any document citing AFM 35-13 or 35-12 is a "smoking gun" (except for that one USAF document, and since there is only ONE occurence of it, I am inclined to think it is a legitimate typo)
If they left a big old THUMBPRINT in the center of the document, it couldn't be clearer what the probable source is.
For the Art Bell crowd, however, it *is* possible that the documents came from Area 51. (cue the moog effects) After all, Area 51 WAS at Wright-Patterson AFB, which also has jets, one of which is JUST like the one Lt Bush flew! Coincidence? You be the judge! _________________ USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
You GottaBeKidding Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 692
|
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wow! That American Statesman article is heavy!
Just went over to one of the barking moonbats sites and they are so desperate to prove that the docs aren't fake that they are spouting all kinds of fiction. And then they say that if the docs are fake, Rove did it! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|