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| Does Kerry owe Veterans an apology? |
| Yes, John Kerry does owe veterans an apology. |
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| No, John Kerry does not owe veterans an apology. |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
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Armorer
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Ask his crew how they feel about that.
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That's not how apologies work. You see, the wrong doer is supposed to have the moral fortitude to take it upon themselves to apologize. There is no debate that Kerry, by abandoning his crew, committed what is perceived as an unforgivable sin in the traditions of the sea service. Maybe some of those sailors thought he should take advantage of every possible loop hole he could to get the hell out of danger... However, as the skipper of a swift boat he was obligated to serve the needs of his mission and his crew regardless of what he or that same crew thought was in the best interests of John Kerry. Neither the mission nor the crew were served by his hasty exit. I'm not speaking for his crew... I'm talking about the burdens of command and Kerry's failure to demonstrate that he has a stomach for them. I'm certainly not talking about you, so don't flatter yourself and let's stay on topic here, shall we?
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prdCOmom
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:32 am Post subject: apology |
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Kerry especially owes all Viet Nam veterans an apology.
He also owes America one.
He did more to divide this country and dishonor American pride than anyone I know of.
Kerry is responsible for many many deaths in Viet Nam as well as more than a few after many of those brave soldiers returned home.
Anyone who supports Kerry just simply is not interested in the truth.
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waltjones
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:38 am Post subject: apologize? |
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Perhaps if he apologized - sincerely - I could at least let go of the hate. If not: the Hell with him.
Semper Fi!
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| d19thdoc wrote: |
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Two years later, [1984] he ran for the U.S. Senate - dusting off his veteran's credentials by standing in front of the black Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington to shoot a TV campaign ad, defying regulations that the memorial not be used for political purposes. The ad "was filmed illegally against the wishes of the National Park Service," according to the Boston Globe. Kerry authorized its broadcast anyway. |
Could you post me a link to that?
Do you know if that applies as much for the Tomb of the Unknown?
Does anything that Kerry or Bush may have done have a thing to do with justifying what I talk here to a person here what he is doing?
Do you figure the sins of another to justify your own?
What makes you anything better than the one you judge then?
I am not here to justify Kerry. Don't even like the guy. I am here to test some of these 'truths' that folks profess to tell.
What I have found is that before it might even come to 'truths' being disproved or proved the local folks get pissed off at them even being questioned. Then when their invective is met with invective they have tantrum fits to accuse others of not being nice.
Buncha clowns.
And I find the justification for using the flag draped coffin in the political ad pretty weak against the justifications for forbidding the taking pictures of anonymous flag draped coffins with some claim of privacy.
Anyway - I have seen exact same quote of your post in a couple of places. Being word for word I suppose it to have the same single source.
It would not surprise me if Kerry might have done what your quote claims - or he may have done something similar or something that was reported with a twist. I dunno. He has done and said a number of things I didn't like.
I know that folks here have done same thing as what they complain about when they would fit it to their agenda. They often do it right while they ***** about some other doing it. |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:06 am Post subject: Re: apologize? |
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| waltjones wrote: | Perhaps if he apologized - sincerely - I could at least let go of the hate. If not: the Hell with him.
Semper Fi! |
That seems odd.
Is not hate something like a disease? It is certainly not good for you is it?
You defend it as if it were something precious and you blame another for having such control over you to cause your emotional affliction. |
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d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Apology? |
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| Quote: | | Is that Catholicism or you are relating part of a twelve step program? |
If you are familiar with twelve step programs, I'm happy for you. You are apparently not as familiar with Catholicism. Perhaps your knowledge of it does not go back as far as when Kerry and I were young.
And:
| Quote: | | If it be religion then I would think that stuff is between him and his priest and not for you to judge. |
I was describing a method that is defined by a religious tradition Kerry should be familiar with, and understand the need for, and that I would like everyone who is considering this question to be aware of. If the wrong was public and caused public harm, and it was and it did, then it is everyone's business. If we are not to judge him, then he picked the wrong profession and we should cancel the election in November.
And:
| Quote: | You are into religious tradition? What do you make of this:
Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? |
What I make of it is that by asserting it you convict yourself of it. Do you suppose that this applies only to others when you decide so? You should go back and read some of your previous posts. Perhaps, in the religious tradition mode, you are familiar with the the story of the Pharisee.
In any event, all this protest about process, with the personal insinuations thrown in for good measure, is a total avoidance of the issue I raised: that any apology Kerry could realistically consider making could not be persuasive to those he made it to.
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d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Two years later, [1984] he ran for the U.S. Senate - dusting off his veteran's credentials by standing in front of the black Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington to shoot a TV campaign ad, defying regulations that the memorial not be used for political purposes. The ad "was filmed illegally against the wishes of the National Park Service," according to the Boston Globe. Kerry authorized its broadcast anyway. |
Could you post me a link to that?
Do you know if that applies as much for the Tomb of the Unknown?[/quote]
Craig:
The source is: J. Michael Waller, Insight Magazine, March 5, 2004.
Please note: the following is my opinion based on my experience, but may be wrong. Arlington is a National Cemetery and is highly policed by the U.S. Army and other police forces. I am sure any specifically partisan political event is not allowed and would be prevented. The use of filmed ceremonies is probably not regulated, since the ceremonies are all officially approved in the first place. But this would not prevent someone from using such film for partisan purposes. The Vietnam Veterans Memorial is policed by the National Park Service much morre loosely (you may spend time there and never see a Park Ranger) and is out in the open - open to anyone. It would be easy to defy the regulations there.
I hope this answers your question. You could find additional info on the Arlington site at http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/
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For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Apology? |
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| d19thdoc wrote: |
| Quote: | | Is that Catholicism or you are relating part of a twelve step program? |
If you are familiar with twelve step programs, I'm happy for you. You are apparently not as familiar with Catholicism. Perhaps your knowledge of it does not go back as far as when Kerry and I were young.
And:
| Quote: | | If it be religion then I would think that stuff is between him and his priest and not for you to judge. |
I was describing a method that is defined by a religious tradition Kerry should be familiar with, and understand the need for, and that I would like everyone who is considering this question to be aware of. If the wrong was public and caused public harm, and it was and it did, then it is everyone's business. If we are not to judge him, then he picked the wrong profession and we should cancel the election in November.
And:
| Quote: | You are into religious tradition? What do you make of this:
Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? |
What I make of it is that by asserting it you convict yourself of it. Do you suppose that this applies only to others when you decide so? You should go back and read some of your previous posts. Perhaps, in the religious tradition mode, you are familiar with the the story of the Pharisee.
In any event, all this protest about process, with the personal insinuations thrown in for good measure, is a total avoidance of the issue I raised: that any apology Kerry could realistically consider making could not be persuasive to those he made it to. |
Eh? My knowledge of Catholic does not go back as far as when you and Kerry were young?
I suppose not - but what you say does not make a lick of sense to me.
Yea - I don't know way lot about Catholic. I gather that church has found some exemption to the admonition - the Command against making graven images. But then most churches ignore that as well. Just look at the stink over some judge wanting to put some religious graven image of the commandments, one of which proscribes making graven images, into some court house.
As for my question about Matt 7 - I did not assert anything about it. I asked what you made of it.
Myself is of the view that it is not some proscription of "judging" such as a juror might decide if they believe a person did a thing or not. Well, if you see a person do a thing you are not judging just to know they did it.
I figure that applies as much if the evidence is pretty conclusive that someone did something.
I have pondered and it seem to me that the admonition of Jesus had more to do with judging what someone deserved. That is judging them to be a bad person in need of punishment.
Kinda goes along with that "... cast the first stone ...." thing.
Well, I don't know if that is really such as a proscription as it is advice. - Kinda like that about not calling someone a fool or saying raca (is raca referring to making rude at someone?)
Anyway - I am not especially a religious person. I dig on what Jesus seemed to be about but don't refer to myself at Christian. - Well, I look at what is labeled Christian and calls themselves Christian and I am certainly not that.
Anyway. You figure that Kerry is guilty of something that he should make amends such as you would prescribe.
Myself has long been one to tell folks to not bother me with their apologies. I guess we are different in that for sure. My mark of sincerity is if they don't do it again.
I don't recall Kerry back then. Seems I might recall thinking that book cover looking kind dumb - juvenile. The symbolism of the flag upside down making a statement of urgent danger or some such was not lost on me.
I thought a lot of over enthused folks over stated their case in such manner that would likely turn folks off to their ranting more than make positive impression about their cause.
Well, Kerry says that he regrets some of the language he used back then. He stands behind the what it was about though.
As far as I am concerned the folks who insist to continue to take offense it is because of their determination to take offense and determination to insist that the meant the offense they take.
So it comes to a bunch of hate mongers reinforcing each other affliction and bothering others with it.
Easy people to exploit. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:10 am Post subject: |
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A couple verses also from Matthew Kerry should think about;
Matthew 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Dammit! Got too many windows open and had time finding my way back here when I clicked your link.
Guess I would have to see the ad in question - but I might as well take word for it that it is so and as described. I am disappointed in lot of things that politicians exploit. - Most times it seems to come to choice of which liar. But even with acquaintances sometimes it seems there is a sort of trust when one knows what sort of thing a person might lie about.
Maybe a guy can trust a rat as long as he does not accidently corner the rat.
I suppose I support Kerry. Seems more like default though. Only other viable option.
Right now I think the Supreme court needs some leaning to the left more than over balance to the right - and Bush has well demonstrated what sort of judges he would appoint.
Chances are I would not like what Kerry would appoint either but he would need to really go some to appoint something as outrageously left as that Thomas is right.
I think bush should not have attacked Iraq when he did. But he did and somebody has got to make the best of it now.
An over balanced to the right Supremes I think would be long lasting disaster. If premature and improperly approach to attacking Iraq is disastrous or not, it is done - so whatever. Bush has alienated allies to where I think there be best likelihood of getting some international help in fixing a mess if there is some new administration that has not pissed everyone off already.
Bush appointed Rumsfeld and Ashcroft. Maybe i hold that more against him than anything - or I see in that as example of his incompetence for the position to be appointing anyone.
Anyway - I could go on and on and just get more incoherent. The crap that people are b****ing about Kerry just seems to me rather petty in relation to a lot of stuff and what politicians do all the time - and the other side playing dirty right well.
People get pissed and deny that they are being exploited. - Well, of course they do. That is the nature of the exploited.
Seems to me that it is same folks who went after McCain who found them a figurehead and pass this Swift Boats off as just some old troops with a grudge.
Sure it is.
One could wonder if some of the loudest accusers of Kerry supporters being paid or some kind of Kerry infiltrators are not paid direct by Bush campaign their own selves. |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | A couple verses also from Matthew Kerry should think about;
Matthew 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. |
Well, that is certainly interesting what you think Kerry should do.
Why don't you send it to him. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | that is certainly interesting what you think Kerry should do. |
I've already made my views well known. He knows the majority of vets are against him and along with a willing media, are hiding that fact while trying to make it appear vets are supporting him. |
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d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: apologize? |
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Craig wrote:
| Quote: | That seems odd.
Is not hate something like a disease? It is certainly not good for you is it?
You defend it as if it were something precious and you blame another for having such control over you to cause your emotional affliction. |
And later Craig wrote:
| Quote: | Myself is of the view that it is not some proscription of "judging" such as a juror might decide if they believe a person did a thing or not. Well, if you see a person do a thing you are not judging just to know they did it.
I figure that applies as much if the evidence is pretty conclusive that someone did something. |
Craig - You cannot tell me that you are not two separate and distinct individuals.
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For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
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Marine4life
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 591
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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He owes an appology for his lies, false testimony, mocking the great Iwa Jima memorial, and war crimes that he admitted he was involved in. Won't happen cuz he would go to prison.
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Bumped Up
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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