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lsander · Seaman Recruit Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 4

I haven't heard him say it for a while, but Kerry is fond of saying that he "enlisted." A man who enlists is one of the common folk, as opposed to one who gets an officer's commission from, for example, an elite institution such as the Naval Academy.

While technically Kerry DID "enlist," the reality is that he signed up for Officer Candidate School. One is briefly an enlisted man at OCS, and if one "washes out," one can get sent to the fleet as an enlisted man. But very few wash out, especially Ivy League types.

What the guy did was sign up to become an officer. When he says he "enlisted," he is spinning.

2ndamendsis · PO3 Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 288 Location: NJ

We need a Fleet of Enlisted just to keep up with his damned lies!!
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mom of Sailor - Gulf 1
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ASPB · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:59 am Post subject:

Main Entry: en·list Pronunciation Guide

lsander · Seaman Recruit Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 4

Your dictionary doesn't make the discrimination between officer and enlisted. The word "enlisted" implies, wrongly in Kerry's case, that the person is signing up in the way that most people, e.g. the salt of the earth, common man, young fellow next door, become members of the military.

The elite, e.g. the college men, diplomat's sons, etc., enter programs that make them officers. It is a most unusual usage to speak of "enlisting" when one signs up to become an officer. (Unless, of course, you are trying, by your words, to convey that you are at one with the salt of the earth.)

There's nothing wrong with officers (I was one myself), but they don't "enlist." In fact, by striving to become officers, they strive to put themselves ABOVE all who merely enlist.

Kerry joined an elite program to become an officer. He did not "enlist" and get promoted into officer ranks (but, IMHO, he wants people to get the impression that he did).

It's a fine point. A nuance. But a nuanced way to mislead.

Anker-Klanker · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject:

I'm sure there's someone else who can give a better, more detailed answer, but "technically" I think he did "enlist" (in the usual sense of the word). I've run into a good deal of discussion on this subject some days back in one of these forums; that discussion is undoubtedly buried several pages back by now. But in short...

When he was turned down for his last deferment, he did, in fact, enlist in the Navy while he was awaiting his slot in OCS. This enlistment period, I believe, was several months long.

BuffaloJack · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject:

In becoming an officer, first you enlist, then go to OCS, ROTC, etc.
If you successfully make it through, then you are commissioned.
If not you either leave or join the fleet in the enlisted ranks.
In any case, the first step is enlisting.

Anker-Klanker · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:22 am Post subject:

From the Winter Soldiers forum:

"Enlisted in the US Navy Reserve on 02/18/66 for six years, placed on inactive duty.
Entered OCS 08/19/66 and was commissioned 12/16/66 as Ensign (118 days)."

Dane · Lt.Jg. Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 114 Location: Chile

C´mon, folks, there are bigger fish to fry here. Getting bogged down in admin-type nuances will just confuse the non-military public.

- Three distinct versions of a Silver Star citation

- Falsified reports IOT win Purple Hearts

- Conducting secret meetings with the NV government while still an officer of U.S. Navy

- Falsifying reports of atrocities before Congress

These are the things that will bring him down

Dane

Stevie · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:25 am Post subject:

ok, Dane is right....

but just for the record, he VOLUNTEERED !

just ask Clinton ! kerry said 'SEND MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !'
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

ASPB · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:10 am Post subject:

lsander · Seaman Recruit Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 4

And what I was trying to say is that it is very unusual to use the transitive verb "enlist" to describe one's enrollment in an officer candidate program, even if the enrollees are technically, and briefly, "enlisted" (adj.) men.

Though I was only a naval officer for four years, and it was many years ago, I don't ever recall any young civilian who enrolled in OCS, NROTC, or the Naval Academy referring to himself as having "enlisted." To have done so would have given an inaccurate impression of what he did.

Rolling Eyes

ASPB · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:06 pm Post subject:

What I was trying to say was that:

1. You enlist in the the USNR ans an E-1
2. You enroll in OCS and if you graduate you become an O-1
3. If you fail OCS you're still subject to the terms of your enlistment contract.

Therefore, you have "enlisted"!

For example, I was a E-6 Boatswain's Mate at the end of my (extended) first enlistment. I was offered OCS and an opportunity to finish college in the Navy. If I had failed OCS I would still have been an E-6 and obligated to fullfill my new 6 year enlistment. If it had been only a 4 year enlistment I probably would have taken the Navy up on it.

Nuff Said! Let's fight the real war! We're both on the same side! Smile

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