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one more captins mast
LCDR
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 438
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:01 am Post subject: its the weavers, |
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Kerry the prince is having his stuff made by those peskey,
"gold stealing weavers " and sure nuf there they go
stealing the gold again , and there he stands "naked" only
thing is "why does Dan Blather like a naked prince"
oops its the
strange mr aj one more time
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the strange mr aj |
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BenDeR
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:15 am Post subject: |
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NavyChief wrote;
| Quote: | The other boats?
Trying to jog your analytical mind
- Chief
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K....all my focus was on the 94. Now I have to go back and re-read the whole thing. How do you get to sleep at night, or do you?
BTW next time you're in Southern California I'm buying you a big steak dinner.
_________________
USMC res 3rd ANGLICO
1986 - 1988
"Retreat hell! We just got here!"
Capt. Lloyd Williams, USMC |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:25 am Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BenDeR
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Chief...I'm just having a big brain fart on the other boats right now. I analyze data all day long in my job, but this thing is kicking my a**s. A little help please.
BTW I'll grill the steak myself. Is prime aged ribeye ok?
_________________
USMC res 3rd ANGLICO
1986 - 1988
"Retreat hell! We just got here!"
Capt. Lloyd Williams, USMC |
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Tom Poole
Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 914
Location: America
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:24 am Post subject: ...2nd Purple Heart... |
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| homesteader wrote: | | ...confront them with details as being uncovered by NavyChief to convince them that they are involved in a cover up that could have long lasting legal ramifications.... |
I thought you'd (Chief) make this easy but now find myself in over my head. I'll have to leave the analysis to those more knowledgeable. However, as an interested bystander, I still believe homesteader's proposal is an effective way to smoke out the truth. Others, including myself, have proposed this and while it would be better known now, it would be very sweet whenever found out.
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'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2 |
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Becky
Seaman
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 179
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | "NavyChief
(snipped)
(2) First thing they teach in school not to shoot them in heavy rain
(snipped)
- Chief |
Who's got the school manual? If it says not to shoot them in
heavy rain, it should also say why and give the specs...right?
'course, I'm just along for the ride.  |
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Weaponeer
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:44 am Post subject: 40mm Information |
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| stylin19 wrote: |
Not sure I would buy the premature detonation because of the rain. Have to assume he was firing HE rounds.
The M79 round doesn't arm until 15 meters. Muzzle velocity is 76 meters per second. Is that slow enough to be detonated by a monsoon rain ?
I carried the blooper. I never fired it in a monsoon rain. Blooper experts needed here. |
There were two 40mm HE cartridges
M406
Arming Distance 14 to 28 METERS
M381
Arming Distance 2 to 3 METERS
Muzzle velocity of the grenade is 75 meters/second (246 feet/second).
The HE grenade has a kill radius of 5 meters (45 feet) and a wounding radius of 15 meters (50 feet). The HE grenade contains approximately 300 fragments.
I don't have information either way on if rain could cause premature detonation. I do know that some arty fuses were known for premature detonation, but I cannot remember which ones.
I have only fired the M-203, and I have never fired 40mm into water, so if anyone here has fired 40mm HE into water and it detonated, then I would say it's possible.
The other possibility is someone (Kerry?) had a round go off by accident and it detonated near the swift in the water, rather than in the air. Based on pictures of Kerry handling weapons (recent photo of Kerry shooting a 12 GA showing him with his finger on the trigger at all times) it's very possible, but still just a guess. |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I am sure I saw a site that stated that the M-79 HE round armed "between 14 and 25 meters" after firing. At 14 meters, you're in very real danger of catching some shrapnel. If it's true that it can be set off by heavy rain (and I've never heard that theory myself), you may be on to something here.
Here's one example: | Quote: | | Mimimum range is 80 meters, and in flight the grenade takes 14 to 28 meters to arm itself. Casualty radius is 5 meters. |
http://www.i-kirk.info/tales/vnr03.html
| Quote: | | It arms between 14 and 27 meters, and it produces a ground burst that causes casualties within a 5-meter radius |
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m406.htm
Here's a little warning: | Quote: | | When you fire grenades at targets within battle sight ranges (50 to 80 meters or 165 to 265 feet), you must be in a protected position. Do NOT fire upon targets that are within 80 meters (265 feet) of friendly troops. |
http://www.tpub.com/content/combat/14160/css/14160_58.htm |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| cipher wrote: | o The 280740 would be about 1 km directly north of the 270740, right?
o Why would he be carrying an M-79?
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o The format is AB Xxx Yyy: AB=sector. X=west-east Y=south-north
So WQ2774 is about 1 km west of WQ280747. On the Dam Doi river.
o From the PCF Specifications:
| Quote: | Various crew member weapons included: M-79 grenade launchers,
M-16 rifles, a 12 gauge Ithaca riot gun, .45 and .38 caliber pistols,
various types of hand grenades (fragmentation, concussion, red
yellow and green smoke, thermite), and a Very Pistol Flare Gun. |
Here is a "cleaned-up" map that illustrates the points being made by NavyChief
...  ...
Note the time interval FROM WHEC-44 TO the Dam Doi Outpost versus the time
frame BACK via the Cua Lon. The question: Where exactly was PCF-94 at 1400?
Is this a likely place for an RPG to be fired at a Swift in the prevailing weather?
..................  ..................
............................. PCF-45 rollin' down the Cua Lon River ..............................
Everyone needs to go back and read page 78 of UFC, the second paragraph:
| Quote: |
Van Odell, a sailor on PCF-93, recounts that when Kerry's crew came back
that day, he heard them say that Kerry had faked a Purple Heart from his
own M-79 wound. In addition, one of Kerry's crewmen, in a 2002 email
that he disowned after meeting with Kerry, questioned this Purple Heart
and indicated that it was for a negligently self-inflicted M-79 grenade
round like the one occurring at Cam Ranh Bay
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Previous SwiftVets BB post with: Admin deleted source reference
.
Last edited by rbshirley on Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:28 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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BC
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 288
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "Three personnel in black pajamas were spotted ducking behind bank on port side of PCF-94. |
| Quote: | | The evidence points to the incident occurring on the SONG CUA LON (a very large and wide river). |
| Quote: | | Add a reported monsoon rain and the weapon was useless. |
Ok, I may be off here, but these three statements, plus everything else you have covered, seem to be the key for me. For me the best way to look at it is.
1. Verifiable proof of the weather that day. The monsoon rain and how much and what would have been the visibility that day.
2. SONG CUA LON, How wide? (which I’ll do an internet search to find out, unless you already know off hand.)
3. spotted ducking behind bank, if the visibility was low, could they even been seen?
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Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
Duty Honor Country |
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BenDeR
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I knew I was missing something! This is Bay Hap all over again.
The only people wounded from small arms and rockets are Kerry and his crew. 6 boats in the river (where ever it may be) and the only peeps wounded are on Kerry's boat. What about a damage report? How many bullet holes? Any twisted screws?
BTW many thanks to rbshirley for clearing up the coordinant issue I raised. 
_________________
USMC res 3rd ANGLICO
1986 - 1988
"Retreat hell! We just got here!"
Capt. Lloyd Williams, USMC |
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USAFBratToo
Former Member
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| "Based on pictures of Kerry handling weapons..." If it's anything like a photo I saw of him handling a football - oh, brother! Even I could do better, and I'm a girl! This is a great thread and when it is all done remember it has to be translated so that it can have impact on a soundbite in some newshow being read by someone who knows nothing about any of the technicalities. What would really make it a zinger is one of his crew coming forward... |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: 40mm Information |
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deleted
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BC
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 288
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Ok haven’t found any thing geographical yet saying how wide, deep..ect that the Song Cua Lon is, but this gave me a very good idea how big this river is.
http://www.gunboatriders.com/theboats/88_crockett/pg88.html
| Quote: | After inaugurating the era of PG river operations, CROCKETT was called on to remain in a river for an extended period in support of Operation SEA FLOAT, a floating base situated in the middle of the Song Cua Lon, 18 miles inland.
SEA FLOAT was made up of floating pontoons attached together and anchored in the river. This manmade island held several prefabricated structures, including barracks, mess hall, storerooms and offices. It also had landing pads and berths for several helicopters and Swift Boats (PCF's). A Vietnamese hospital ship was located nearby to give medical treatment to the locals as part of the pacification program. CROCKETT primary mission was the defense of SEA FLOAT. |
Although pictures are great, Sea Float being 18 miles inland tells me how big this river really is.
Edit: duh!! I should have seen this first. link to picture from the air showing Sea Float and Song Cua Lon.
http://brownwater-navy.com/vietnam/Seafloat.htm
_________________
Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
Duty Honor Country
Last edited by BC on Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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