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homesteader
PO3
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 294
Location: wisconsin
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 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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So Kerry's account makes as much sense as someone saying "I walked out of my Manhattan office building and looked across the street at the wheat field that stretched from horizon to horizon".
Am I reading this right? |
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BenDeR
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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The map link in the original post now requires a user/pass.
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USMC res 3rd ANGLICO
1986 - 1988
"Retreat hell! We just got here!"
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BC
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 288
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| NavyChief wrote: | Now, look at the size of that 50 swift on the river and try to image how far it would be to the left bank. More than 200 meters, maybe?
The B-40 was only rated out to 200 meters with a slim hope of hitting something -- 300 meters was max.
Now, tell me during a rain that you saw three guys in black pajamas ducking behind the bank 
- Chief |
I think you have him nailed Chief. 
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Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Careful guys. SeaFloat wasn't there until after Kerry left.
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | | Careful guys. SeaFloat wasn't there until after Kerry left. |
Yes Tom ... but the "Sea Raiders" ops during early 1969 were what laid
the groundwork for Zumwalt to decide that Sea Float would work deep
in the Cua Lon for exactly the reasons that NavyChief has stated: It is
hard to conceive that an RPG fired from the banks could hit ten Ammi
barges lashed together (which is what Sea Float was), much less a 50
foot Swift or even a 165 foot Ashville class PG or a heavily armed ASPB!
Now turning and going up a canal or a klong .... a much different story
The Brownwater-Navy image of the Cua Lon with Sea Float is impressive
.....  .....
.
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SAFVet
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 23
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Way to go, Chief!
Now, where should this blivet land, hmmm???  |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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I have one problem:
| Quote: | Exerpt:
(4) Snow depth of 10 cm or more and standing water will increase the potential of 40-mm duds. These conditions must be considered prior to firing |
Now, if standing water will produce an increase in duds, monsoon rain would probably not produce an increase in premature detonations. Following me on this? Be careful attributing Kerry's wounds to the rain, maybe he fired another short round into the water?
Also, during training, we fired against plywood silhouettes at 75 meters, and nobody was wounded. I guess maybe we were all lucky, but we expended about 60 rounds, some of them short and some of them long. |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:26 am Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Hammer2
PO2
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Chief, I found the army FM 23-31 which is the M203 grenade launcher manual. The M-79 is covered in Appendix A.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-31/f2331.htm
Still looking for ammo data on the M406 HE round. I'm trying to find fuze data in particular.
Round velocity is 76m/s - 247 FPS - or about 168 MPH. Imagine the round hitting heavy monsoon rain at 168 MPH! Detonation as soon as round arms itself.
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:17 am Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by NavyChief on Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Imagine the round hitting heavy monsoon rain at 168 MPH! Detonation as soon as round arms itself. |
Not necessarily, the round had an aluminum ogive, so it may require a "crushing force" greater than raindrops could impart in order to detonate. We need more data to make the statement that it was not effective in heavy rain, in my opinion.
| Quote: | | if you were using training rounds, the rounds were likely dummied down to prevent accidents. The manual states that TP rounds produce little fragmentation, which reduces the possibility of training accidents. |
I've fired those training rounds, a small "pop" and some green smoke. I don't think the case even fragmented much. They didn't appear dangerous.
| Quote: | | (3) Fire no rounds at less than 200 meters. |
I trained on the M-79 w/HE rounds at 75 meters. No injuries, so the 200 meter warning includes a big "safety zone". This is probably to ensure that the trainees have a high trajectory to avoid "short" rounds. Once you could "eyeball" the shot, I'm betting targets well inside 200 meters were engaged on a regular basis in combat. Personally, I'd take a 50 yard shot and not worry about it. We really need an M-79 grenadier with some combat experirence on here for a while. Anybody ask at the SF vets anti-Kerry site? |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:36 am Post subject: |
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The key and weak spot I believe is his crewmates that were present that day. They all know what happened. I think if one breaks away the rest will fall like a house of cards especially with the detail evidence the NavyChief is fleshing out from these reports.
The devil is always in the details isn't it Chief.
I'd hate to be John Kerry with you on my tail.
Dusty |
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