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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Barnes being a Democratic operative was not worthy of note in the early Rather reports. His being overtly anti-Bush was not enough to exclude him from consideration, although being pro-Bush was enough to exclude all the other witnesses who had real knowledge.
Dan Rather's apology is not worth a cowpie. |
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DenisC
Seaman
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 166
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:31 am Post subject: |
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Off INSIGHT WEBSITE:
-- I have found no documentation from LTC Killian's hand or staff that indicate that this unit was involved in any complicit way to either cover for the failures of 1LT Bush, or to provide him pay or certification for training not completed. On the contrary, LTC Killians' remarks are rare. Burkett
Now, let's flash-forward eight days, to August 21st, the day that
Burkett spoke to Cleland. The Washington Post writes:
In an Aug. 21 posting, Burkett referred to a conversation with former senator Max Cleland (D-Ga.) about the need to counteract Republican tactics: "I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it, not spending any money. He said counterattack. So I gave them the information to do it with. But none of them have called me back."Burkett
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DenisC
173rd Airborne, RVN '65-67' |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:37 am Post subject: |
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On Scarborough tonight it was mentioned a damning USA Today article would be hitting tomorrow, but should be posted to the web tometime tonight. Keep on the lookout for it everyone and post a link when it comes up. It supposedly covers the memos Kerry campaign link.
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kmudd
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 825
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Thanks kmudd,
That appears to be the article mentioned.
quote from article,
| Quote: | | The network's effort to place Burkett in contact with a top Democratic official raises ethical questions about CBS' handling of material potentially damaging to the Republican president in the midst of an election. This "poses a real danger to the potential credibility of a news organization," said Aly Colón, a news ethicist at the Poynter Institute for Media Studies |
I would like to also add potentially criminal.
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"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Devil_dog_for_truth wrote: |
Isn't Barnes one of the Kerry campaigns largest donors? |
Yep - among individuals, Ben Barnes ranks #3 as a fund-raiser for Kerry - $466,250
By contrast (and as an interesting little twist) Viacm is listed as a $150,000 contributor. 
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: |
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People may be missing a very important aspect of the email sent from Bill Burkett to Max Cleland. What money was Burkett referring to in this email?
| Quote: | | "I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it, not spending any money[. [Mr. Cleland] said counterattack. So I gave them the information to do it with," Mr. Burkett wrote. |
Read and reread the email. Doesn't it seem peculiar that the words "not spending any money" just sit there in the middle of that email? Money for what??? Money for the documents?
Perhaps Bill Burkett would not turn the "forged" documents over to Mary Mapes without being paid for them (of course, CBS could absolutely not do that) then would it make sense for Mary Mapes to contact Joe Lockhart at the Kerry Campaign to help make sure that Bill Burkett got what he was asking? This is the question that I am now considering. Any one else think this is possible? Otherwise, why would Mary Mapes have to put Burkett in touch with the Kerry campaign? Max Cleland wanted the story run but probably could not pony up whatever it was that Burkett wanted?
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rparrott21
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 760
Location: Mckinney, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Sarborough Country whole show was on the CBS, Kerry connection..great stuff..this guy needs to be on Fox....what the rerun tonight if you can........ |
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DenisC
Seaman
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 166
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:37 am Post subject: |
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Allah Pundit expands on this and the USA Today article. He is pretty good. I never heard of a Blog or knew what they were when I signed up here. Now I read them all. I'll be glad when this election is over so I can go back to work.
http://www.allahpundit.com/
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DenisC
173rd Airborne, RVN '65-67'
Last edited by DenisC on Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Arty Guy
Seaman
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| I have seen Barnes identified as a campaign vice chair. I suspect that is largely an honorific title conferred for raising big $$$. |
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:48 am Post subject: |
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Again, I ask: What money was Burkett talking about in his email to Max Cleland:
| Quote: | | "I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it, not spending any money[. [Mr. Cleland] said counterattack. So I gave them the information to do it with," Mr. Burkett wrote. |
Payment for the documents?
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ProudDaughterofVet
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 340
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:18 am Post subject: |
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It is simply a matter of time. That USA Today article was damning as all hell. WE all knew it. As soon as the Clintonista's got on board..the dirty tricks were kicked into high gear. To have Maples, call Lockhart and let him know prior to the running of the piece, blows my mind? Did they even call the Bush campaign for any statement on this prior to running the piece?? Hmmmmmmmm, think NOT!!! Sit back and watch the blood flow from CBS..the days of the elite media are numbered. My dad always said that Cronkite was a Commie..flows from the neck down as far as I am concerned... 
PD
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Sonar5
Seaman
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Caleeefornia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:19 am Post subject: I reiterate my cartoon of earlier..... |
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I reiterate my cartoon of earlier.....
From 9/10/2004: (Not so far off now.....)
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7496
Now the good Stuff.....
Lockhart is/was a Clinton lackey...Now a Kerry Lackey..... Some suspect Clinton will do anything to sabotage the kerry campaign so mrs. slickwilly can run in '08.
Just breaking tonight is the possible (probable, IMHO) link back to the kerry campaign, which involves collusion on ad campaigns, unfortunate son, mapes, the CBS producer, rather, burkett, kerry, lockhart, and maybe even slick willy himself....
Now the story is finally starting to come together....
Questions?????
Regards,
Joe
From:
http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200409202230.asp
| Quote: | Kerry Spot [ jim geraghty reporting ]
[ kerry spot home | archives | email ]
BURKETT MET WITH LOCKHART - UPDATED
A spit-take scoop from USA Today:
CBS arranged for a confidential source to talk with Joe Lockhart, a top aide to Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, after the source provided the network with the now-disputed documents about President Bush's service in the Texas National Guard.
Lockhart, the former press secretary to President Clinton, said a female producer talked to him about the 60 Minutes program a few days before it aired on Sept. 8. She gave Lockhart a telephone number and asked him to call Bill Burkett, a former Texas National Guard officer who gave CBS the documents. Lockhart couldn't recall the producer's name. But CBS said Monday night that it would examine the role of producer Mary Mapes in passing the name to Lockhart.
Burkett told USA TODAY that he had agreed to turn over the documents to CBS if the network would help arrange a conversation with the Kerry campaign.
"At Burkett's request, we gave his (telephone) number to the campaign," said Betsy West, senior CBS News vice president.
CBS would not discuss the propriety of the network serving as a conduit between its partisan source, Burkett, and the Kerry campaign. “It was not part of any deal” with Burkett to obtain the documents, West said, declining to elaborate.
But Burkett said Monday that his contact with Lockhart was indeed part of an "understanding" with CBS. Burkett said his interest in contacting the campaign was to offer advice in responding to Republican criticisms about Kerry's Vietnam service. It had nothing to do with the documents, he said.
Lockhart said he phoned Burkett at the number provided by CBS. Lockhart also said that subject of the documents never came up in his conversation with Burkett. Lockhart said the conversation lasted just a few minutes. "It's possible that the producer said they had documents," before his conversation with Burkett, he said.
At the end of the conversation, Lockhart said he thanked Burkett for his interest and there was no further contact with him. Asked why he called Burkett, Lockhart said he talks to "a lot of people."
The White House said CBS' contact with Lockhart was inappropriate. "The fact that CBS News would coordinate with the most senior levels of Sen. Kerry's campaign to attack the President is a stunning and deeply troubling revelation," said Dan Bartlett, White House communications director.
Wow. Michael Graham's dumping-Kerry theory doesn't seem so farfetched anymore.
UPDATE: So what's going on here? Okay, according to what's being pieced together, Burkett wanted to play Kerry campaign strategist, and to get the bigwigs at the Kerry campaign to use his memos that he, apparently, thought would be convincing. Mapes (presuming this female producer Lockhart is talking about is Mapes) wanted the memos. Burkett offers to trade the memos for an introduction to the Kerry campaign. Mapes calls the Kerry camp and eventually reaches Lockhart. Lockhart agrees to the favor, since when a "60 Minutes" producer asks you for a favor, you do it. (Building good relations with the press and all that.) Lockhart talks with Burkett...
...and are these two men being honest about what was and what wasn't discussed?
Let's look on Nexis for the first reference to "Operation Fortunate Son." We find an AP story from September 9, 2004.
Seizing on 30-year-old memos and memories, Sen. John Kerry's operatives are painting an unflattering portrait of President Bush as the "fortunate son" who used family connections to dodge the Vietnam War and then lied about it...
"Two things: One, he didn't tell the truth and that's not going to go away," said Howard Wolfson, a strategist dispatched to the DNC by Kerry's campaign to go negative on Bush. "Second, it begins to paint a picture of a very fortunate son who uses connections and pulls strings for special favors. That is a theme running through the man's life."
The DNC has nicknamed its effort "Operation Fortunate Son" after a Creedence Clearwater Revival anti-war anthem from the 1960s. The song speaks of the privileged few, "born silver spoon in hand," who send others to war.
Bush is not the "senator's son" written about in the song, but he's the son of a former president who served in the House during the Vietnam War.
Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes, a Kerry supporter, says he helped Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard to avoid serving in Vietnam.
As a young lieutenant, Bush was "talking to someone upstairs" and trying to "get out of coming to drill," according to newly unearthed memos by the late Col. Jerry B. Killian, squadron commander for Bush in Texas.
The CBS story based on the memos the evening of Sept. 8. Are we to believe that the Democratic National Committee put together "Operation Fortunate Son," in which these memos are front and center, entirely in the hours after the CBS report, and yet had their campaign ready so that these memos are referred to in the first words of the AP story Sept. 9?
Are we to believe that the DNC didn't know ahead of time what was in those memos, and how they could be used to attack the president?
Ladies and gentlemen, I am not a lawyer. Would this qualify as circumstantial evidence that CBS and the DNC were collaborating on using the memos before the story ran?
And would this explain why Terry McAuliffe said yesterday that no one at the DNC or Kerry campaign, 'had anything to do with the preparations of the documents,' but said nothing about the distribution or dissemination of the memo?
Oh — and did no one at the DNC look at these documents and say, "Gee, these look like they were written with Microsoft Word"?
[Posted 09/20 10:30 PM] |
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azpatriot
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 593
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Nomorelies wrote: | People may be missing a very important aspect of the email sent from Bill Burkett to Max Cleland. What money was Burkett referring to in this email?
| Quote: | | "I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it, not spending any money[. [Mr. Cleland] said counterattack. So I gave them the information to do it with," Mr. Burkett wrote. |
Read and reread the email. Doesn't it seem peculiar that the words "not spending any money" just sit there in the middle of that email? Money for what??? Money for the documents?
Perhaps Bill Burkett would not turn the "forged" documents over to Mary Mapes without being paid for them (of course, CBS could absolutely not do that) then would it make sense for Mary Mapes to contact Joe Lockhart at the Kerry Campaign to help make sure that Bill Burkett got what he was asking? This is the question that I am now considering. Any one else think this is possible? Otherwise, why would Mary Mapes have to put Burkett in touch with the Kerry campaign? Max Cleland wanted the story run but probably could not pony up whatever it was that Burkett wanted? |
Hmm what's even more interesting than the mention of money is the fact that the sentence structure is wrong, (two different thoughts)! What I think we are seeing here is an edited email I think in someones rush to edit the email they screwed up and what they were trying to get was "I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it. Mr. Cleland said counterattack. So I gave them the information to do it with," Mr. Burkett wrote.
They never intended to have any mention of the "money" sentence remain but they were rushed and didn't get it all deleted.
It would be very interesting to see the other copies of this email (if they still exist), the one from the Sent pc, one from a trasitional server from the traffic path, and the recieved email. Though I don't think a non-edited version still exists, with the exseption of one on a transitional server out there somewhere.
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arymann
PO3
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 269
Location: GA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Quote:
"I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it, not spending any money[. [Mr. Cleland] said counterattack. So I gave them the information to do it with," Mr. Burkett wrote. |
I took the money reference to mean they could get traction off of what he had to offer and the campaign would not have to spend money on advertising, etc.
On another note, get a load of the discrepancies in Joe Lockhart's statement in the article referenced below. Early in the article, he indicates Mapes referred him to Burkett because of SwiftVets; then he says he doesn't recall (does that remind you of anyone?) talking to Burkett about the Guard issue and the documents; then he says he's sure he didn't talk to Burkett about the Guard issue. At the end of the article, however, he is quoted as saying Mapes had put him on to some documents thay had to do with the Presiden't guard service. Funny that the document subject didn't come up in his short conversation w/Burkett.
I think Joe's number may be up.
| Quote: | Joe Lockhart denied any connection between the presidential campaign and the papers. Lockhart, the second Kerry ally to confirm contact with retired Texas National Guard officer Bill Burkett, said he made the call at the suggestion of CBS producer Mary Mapes.
"He had some advice on how to deal with the Vietnam issue and the Swift boat" allegations, Lockhart said, referring to GOP-fueled accusations that Kerry exaggerated his Vietnam War record. "He said these guys play tough and we have to put the Vietnam experience into context and have Kerry talk about it more." |
| Quote: | Lockhart denied any involvement. "Bartlett is wrong," he said later Monday
Earlier, Lockhart said he thanked Burkett for his advice after a three- to four-minute call, and that he does not recall talking to Burkett about Bush's Guard records. "It's baseless to say the Kerry campaign had anything to do with this," he said. |
| Quote: | | Later, Lockhart said he was sure he had not talked to Burkett about the Guard documents. Burkett did not return a phone call to The Associated Press. He told USA Today in a story for Tuesday's editions that his interest in contacting the campaign had nothing to do with the documents. |
| Quote: | Lockhart said Mapes asked him the weekend before the story broke to call Burkett. "She basically said there's a guy who is being helpful on the story who wants to talk to you," Lockhart said, adding that it was common knowledge that CBS was working on a story raising questions about Bush's Guard service. Mapes told him there were some records "that might move the story forward. She didn't tell me what they said."
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/politics/9715708.htm |
Last edited by arymann on Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:25 am; edited 7 times in total |
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