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Please read this - especially vets

 
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baldeagl
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:07 am    Post subject: Please read this - especially vets Reply with quote

I'm not one to toot my own horn, but I've just posted this to my blog, and I hope every vet will read it. I think it will touch your heart.

Fake But Accurate

I was reading Powerline tonight when I clicked on a link in this story and I began reading Mackubin Thomas Owens' Seared in My Memory. Owens discusses Kerry's claims that atrocities were routine and a matter of public policy in the Vietnam war. Like any honest broker, Owens concedes that atrocities were committed in Vietnam, just as they are in every war. However, he points out that even generous estimates of the atrocities committed in Vietnam show that less than 1% of the men in Vietnam committed them. He says, "I doubt that many armies in history could match that record."

As I continued to read I came across this quote of historian John Prados, who disputes the charge that the claims of Kerry and his cohorts are false.
Quote:
Lewy's primary evidence consists of noting that VVAW members refused to give depositions. When the Naval Investigative Service tried to pull VVAW members into an inquiry, it found one Marine who either could not or would not give details of what he had seen and allegedly located several other veterans who said they had never gone to Detroit. (O'Neill had cited this same information in his televised debate with Kerry.) But even if true, these incidents were far too limited to establish anything in particular about the Winter Soldier Investigation; the fact that some of the winter soldiers declined to give depositions does not prove or disprove the legitimacy of the entire project. The VVAW leadership left it up to individual members to decide how to respond to requests for depositions. And veterans had good reasons to decline. For one thing, they argued that their purpose was to protest U.S. policy, not to draw attention to individual soldiers. What's more, with the VVAW under direct assault from the Nixon administration, it's understandable that the group's members were loath to cooperate with government investigators.

I was stunned. What Prados is arguing is "even if the specific claims are false, the story itself is true" - fake, but accurate!

This is the same damnable lie that Rather and NYT and LAT and the DNC are trying to pass off on us now with regard to Bush's Guard service! So what if the witnesses in the Winter Soldier Investigation lied? So what if they were frauds who never even served in Vietnam? So what if we can't corroborate any of their testimonies? The essence of their claims is still true!

The arrogance of it is breathtaking! This lie has been passed off on us for more than thirty years! The deleterious effect it has had on this nation is inestimable and, until now, unchallenged. I'm more convinced now than ever that this election is much more than a referendum on Iraq. It's a referendum on the honor of the American soldier and the deceit, arrogance and appalling lack of integrity of the American left.

When the history of this time is written, John Kerry will be seen as the catalyst that caused the Vietnam-era vets to rise up and right a festering wrong that has eaten away at the fabric of this nation like a cancer. For that we should thank him. Despite his unconscionable theft of our honor 33 years ago, his overweening ambition to be President and his unfathomable choice to cast himself in the mold of war hero has granted us the opportunity to set the record straight and in so doing to restore to this country the honor that is rightfully hers.

America has always been an honorable country. The liars and elites have used fake evidence and forged documents to claim otherwise. They are no longer the all powerful gatekeepers of information. Chomsky has been exposed and his empire has no clothes. From now on we will demand to see the evidence or we will not believe.

In Iraq, as in this election, America will reclaim her honor.
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DEL
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for seeing what every American should see.

Now compare the message the left is sending to the people of Iraq with the message they sent to the people of Vietnam.

Listen to what they saw about the war effort. Read what they said in the '70s.

Next they will start on the kids fighting this war.
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BB Stacker
Seaman


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 150
Location: Eustis Fl

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the great post baldeagl. You are correct that we were under the shadow of a one sided biased media, heavily controlled by the left until recently. Now with the rise of FOX, talk radio and the blogasphere, the left can no longer control the flow of information. There are alternatives.

Sen McCain and others say they do not want to see the wounds of Viet Nam reopened. But I disagree. As you pointed out there is a great deal of misperception about the American soldier, fostered by the left, both in this country and around the world. It is the time and opportunity to set the record straight. It is great to see the tactics of the left exposed in the glaring light of a Presidential election.
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dmackto
Rear Admiral


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 719
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, great post... Your exactly right.
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Richard Christiansen
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 54
Location: Canon City, CO

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree wholeheartedly. To solve a problem, you must know what the problem is, and one of our biggest problems in this country is the slanted view and reporting by the media of history and current events. Mr. Kerry unknowingly has touched on a raw nerve, the Vietnam war, which has never been viewed correctly by the media. We can have a healthy debate whether we should have entered the war, but I would think that we should never debate the rightness of the cause, the fight against communism and to side with those that desire freedom. Also, what Kerry did when he falsely accused Vietnam vets of widespread atrocities is very pertinent because he is still doing the same thing. Countless examples are available, but very recently he is accusing the Republicans of actively plotting to prevent minorities from voting. I think this is the same rotten tactic, to use false accusations to further his own cause. This is not only despicable, but is extremely dangerous to incite millions of people that may be inclined to believe him. I think such a politician is a threat to all of our freedoms if he should be elected.
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Tom Poole
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
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Location: America

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:20 pm    Post subject: Please read this... Reply with quote

baldeagl wrote:
...I'm more convinced now than ever that this election is much more than a referendum on Iraq. It's a referendum on the honor of the American soldier and the deceit, arrogance and appalling lack of integrity of the American left....

Another great post. I also believe this campaign is more than a referendum on Iraq. It is America taking a bath. The lies of the VVAW, and generally the whole Kerry stain is being scrubbed off. The unscrupulous, greedy, biased media is being scrubbed off. The "overweening" candidates, who say anything to be elected, are being scrubbed off. Best of all, the humiliation and scorn heaped on the Vietnam vet is being scrubbed off. With the defeat of Kerry, America will be a much better place. As Mammy Yokum used to say, "good's better'n evil because it's nicer."
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republicanveteran
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 333
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Post. Now is the time to point out that Kerry's speech now is no different than 1971.

It is the same John Kerry. He does not know how to win a war. He has been involved in causing the country to lose a war.

He is not a winner, he is a loser.
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cipher
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it curious that the very same person who came up with the "fake but accurate" memos is the SAME person who came up with the "fake but accurate" protrayal of "veterans" who were self-confessed war criminals.

Coincidence? Or a pattern of lies?

Dan Rather is a traitor. Whether he was duped into it or did it on purpose does not matter. Ignorance is no excuse, and deliberate and wanton misrepresentation of the facts to demoralize and weaken the resolve of the US military and the will of the American people is nothing short of treason.

To me, Dan Rather is no different than Tokyo Rose, Axis Sally, Lord Haw-Haw, or any number of propaganda broadcasters of past years. The ONLY difference is that Dan Rather choose to make his broadcasts from INSIDE the US.
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Jerry M
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:40 pm    Post subject: Vietnam wounds were never closed Reply with quote

What McCain and other like minded individuals do not understand is that the wounds of Vietnam were never closed so how can they be reopened. The defeat of Kerry in November will go a long way toward the closure many of us have wanted for over thirty years. Maybe McCain will finally get it when that happens.
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