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Chance Seaman Recruit
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 39 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:34 pm Post subject: Hoping someone has some answers for me~ |
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I'm not as up on everything as all of you are so I'm hoping this will be simple for someone. I have a die-hard Dem friend and he was wondering how many of the SBVT's mentioned in the book, Unfit for Command,received medals. I have been trying all day to come up with some really good arguments but I'm thinking he's a bona-fide bone head that votes Dem because he always has and can't keep an open mind. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! _________________ Chance |
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Se7eN Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 Posts: 47
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Probably doesn't matter if he's liberal-minded. They get a set of talking points, stick to them and try to discredit one person in the group to taint the entire group as biased or somehow directly linked to Bush. The fair way to approach the SBVT's is to try to validate them instead of discredit one person. How can 249 be right and 1 wrong when all 250 say the same thing? In our court of laws, you're innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around as the libs would have it. They have the burden of proof, not the Swifties. They have given their proof in the form of statements and documents. They have yet to be proven guilty of lying.
"Oh, but, but.. THAT guy has donated money to Bush, CLEARLY Bush is behind the whole thing and everyone's a LIAR."
Even though some of them have voted Democrat, hoped for Edwards and donated to the Democratic party, they still wont care.
They have an agenda, and that's the bottom line. |
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grammaj Seaman Recruit
Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 35
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Medals seem to matter only because John Kerry believes they do.
When I consider the men of "Unfit" I could care less if they were decorated at all. They were in VietNam, fought (in spite of John Kerry's statements) and hope to bring the truth of that war to the American people.
If your Democratic friends rely on decorations, they are a sorry lot. It's when the decorations are removed that the REAL person emerges. (IMO) |
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cipher Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 902
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | how many of the SBVT's mentioned in the book, Unfit for Command,received medals. |
All of them got medals.
To be a bit more specific, every one of them got at least seven.
1) Vietnam Campaign Medal
2) Vietnam Service Medal (with various number of bronze stars for campaigns, generally speaking at least two)
3) Vietnam Cross of Gallantry Unit Citation
4) Vietnam Civil Actions Unit Citation
5) National Defense Service Medal
6) Navy Unit Commendation (if they were with the cited unit)
7) Presidential Unit Citation (if they were with the cited unit)
8) Combat Action Medal (if they were in combat the required time or WIA)
And others if they were in a bit of a sticky wicket at a bad time.
But, that said, they just don't talk about them. No need to. _________________ USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92
Last edited by cipher on Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Navy_Navy_Navy Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Chance, I would ask first just what it is that this person is trying to say with a medal count, because quite frankly, I think this is just the most bizarre line of questioning I've seen so far.
And we've seen some pretty bizarre stuff, here!
What could their medals possibly have to do with what these people are telling us of their own observances of John Kerry's behavior and history? _________________ ~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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cipher Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 902
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | And we've seen some pretty bizarre stuff, here! |
Got pictures? _________________ USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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ocsparky101 PO1
Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 479 Location: Allen Park. Michigan
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:17 am Post subject: |
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Chance might I suggest you mention the fact to your liberal buddy that according to John O'Neil when John Kerry was busy getting hippies to lie about atrocities and serving in Vietnam he lost 3 men. Now I would suggest those men got medals of some type maybe though not a Silver Star for shooting an unarmed boy but sure they got something for their sacrifice. I would also suggest that you have youor liberal buddy tell you of the Swiftvets that were on the boat with Kerry what is their medal record during the time John Kerry was their OinC. |
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Tom Poole Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 914 Location: America
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:47 am Post subject: Hoping someone has some answers for me~ |
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Chance wrote: | ...Any help would be greatly appreciated.... |
Chance, here's the best advice I could find:
MACVJOE wrote: | ...my dad told me 'Do not try and teach a Pig to Sing, cause you waste your time and annoy the PIG.... |
Hope this helps. _________________ '58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2 |
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cipher Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 902
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Now I would suggest those men got medals of some type maybe though not a Silver Star for shooting an unarmed boy but sure they got something for their sacrifice. |
I don't recall anyone disputing the portion of the AAR that said the VC was carrying a loaded B-40 rocket launcher. That is NOT what I would call "unarmed". And anyone carrying a weapon like that has long outgrown the "boy" stage, regardless of their age.
Remember the High Road. We aren't disputing that the VC was armed, simply that the entire action, as written in the Silver Star citation and in the SPOT report was questionable justification for the awarding of the nation's third highest decoration for gallentry in combat. _________________ USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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beansoup Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 215 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Lieutenant Commander George Elliot = 2 Bronze Stars
A. French Ensign = 2 Bronze Stars
Lieutenant J.G. Jack Chenowith = Navy Commendation Medal
Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman = Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star
Commander Adrian Lonsdale = Legion of Merit, Bronze Star
Lieutenant J.G. Larry Thurlow = Bronze Star
Lieutenant Bob Elder = Bronze Star
Lieutenant Commander Grant Hibbard = 2 Bronze Stars
Lieutenant Shelton White = 2 Bronze Stars
Gunner's Mate 3rd class Joe Ponder = Purple Heart
Lieutenant Bob Hildreth = Bronze Star, Purple Heart
The Swifties don't brag about their medals,kerry did..
The difference is the Swifty medals are ligit..and kerry will not open his medical records, to the public...All it takes is a, 2 page, 180 form...What is he hiding??? _________________ "John (F) Kerry = "Talk the Talk"
"George W.Bush = "Walk the Talk"
"Swiftvet Donation site"
http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php |
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Knighthawk Commander
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 323 Location: Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:40 am Post subject: |
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cipher wrote: | Quote: | how many of the SBVT's mentioned in the book, Unfit for Command,received medals. |
All of them got medals.
But, that said, they just don't talk about them. No need to. |
Very, very well said.
It goes to the character of an individual, and the kerry lot does not understand that
CHARACTER DOES MATTER _________________ Regards,
Brian
Beware of the lollipop of mediocrity! Lick it once and you'll suck forever.
If guns kill people, then I can blame misspelled words on my pencil.
Knighthawk's Pictures! |
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jataylor11 Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 856 Location: Woodbridge, Virginia
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Give your liberal friend a copy of Unfit for Command --- ask him to read it with an open mind at least one or two chapters --- it fairly give Kerry's version of events as well as the events as observed by the Swift Boat Vets.
It is a quick read --- if he refuses just ask why he is afraid to open his mind. Tell him it will help him know his enemy. Maybe after he reads it he will understand that Kerry is the enemy.
I read just a few passages to my liberal friend --- he took it upon himself to learn more and now is totally disgusted with Kerry. He does not like Bush any better but sees how horrible Kerry would be as CIC. |
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Bystander PO3
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 271 Location: MI
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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cipher wrote '...they just don't talk about them. No need to.' Please permit me to relate a personal story here, with no bearing on VN or the current war, which enforces 'they just don't talk about them.'
My late husband (20 years my senior) was in WWII. The only thing he discussed about his 6 years' military service (after at least 15 years of marriage) was that he was a member of the OSS. Shortly after his death 18 years ago, I was forced to go into our safety deposit box at our bank. Although we both had access, he was the one who removed or placed items in that box. Imagine my surprise when I opened it and found--his Purple Heart medal and accompanying certification! I discussed my find with his two younger brothers who had absolutely no idea of this receipt.
Yes--it's true--they just don't talk about them, nor is it necessary! _________________ No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
..................................Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Chance Seaman Recruit
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 39 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:18 pm Post subject: A HUGE Thanks |
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to all of you! I have finally convinced him. He says he will vote for Nader and that is fine with me, just as long as he doesn't vote for Kerry! The thought of Kerry ever being CIC, makes me sick!
It is the wonderful insight from all of you that has helped me turn him around.
I just can't say how proud I am to know all of you, even though it's only through email! You are a wonderful bunch of people! _________________ Chance |
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