SwiftVets.com

[Frank B]

If we grade our politicians on debating style and image, Kerry won hands down. If we place more importance on substance and resolve, the scales tip to Bush. We knew going into last night that Kerry was the more polished public speaker.....he has excelled in that since his high school days. But we also know the real Kerry, the traitor, who is unfit to lead our country or our military.

There are those who are impressed with the robotic moves of a man primping in public with a $1500 haircuts, manicures and artificial tans, and they will vote for him. On November 2nd, my vote will go to a man who, in almost 4 years of one of the most trying times in our nation's history, showed character and didn't bend to the will of a "global consensus" to keep a tyrant in power.

I would liked to have heard Kerry answer the question: Where would we be today if you had allowed Saddam Hussein to remain in power to continue his WMD programs, considering his association with Al Qaida?
_________________
"Any government that believes money should be taken from Peter to pay Paul will, of course,
have the support of Paul" -- G B Shaw

[RivanG]

Why do you think that Kerry and the dems are allowed to get away with saying that there was no Iraq/Al Queda connection?

Several courts have ruled that 911 families can seek restitution from Iraq due to the Iraq/Al Queda connection.

[GiveMeFreedom]

send this to all your friends!

Still a FLIPPER Kerry and a great second guesser too!

Kerry's 11 Positions
On The War In Iraq
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. October 2002: Kerry Voted For Use Of Force Resolution Against Iraq. Kerry and Edwards voted for the Congressional resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq. (H. J. Res. 114, CQ Vote #237: Passed 77-23: R 48-1; D 29-21; I 0-1, 10/11/02, Kerry Voted Yea)
2. April 2003: Kerry Promised Not To Attack President When War Began, But Weeks Later, With Troops Just Miles From Baghdad, Kerry Broke His Pledge And Called For "Regime Change In The United States." (Glen Johnson, "Democrats On The Stump Plot Their War Rhetoric," The Boston Globe, 3/11/03; Glen Johnson, "Kerry Says Us Needs Its Own ‘Regime Change,’" The Boston Globe, 4/3/03)
3. May 2003: In First Dem Debate, Kerry Strongly Supported President’s Action In Iraq. SEN. JOHN KERRY: "I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him." (ABC News, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Columbia, SC, 5/3/03)

4. September 2003: Kerry Said Voting Against The $87 Billion Supplemental Would Be "Irresponsible." Doyle McManus (LA Times): "If that amendment does not pass, will you then vote against the $87 billion?" Kerry: "I don't think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to - to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That's irresponsible." (CBS’s "Face the Nation," 9/14/03)

5. October 2003: Kerry Voted Against The $87 Billion Supplemental Supporting Our Troops. (S. 1689, CQ Vote #400: Passed 87-12: R 50-0; D 37-11; I 0-1, 10/17/03, Kerry Voted Nay)

6. January 2004: After Voting For War And Trailing Candidate Howard Dean In The Democrat Primaries, Kerry Says He Is Anti-War Candidate. CHRIS MATTHEWS: "Do you think you belong to that category of candidates who more or less are unhappy with this war, the way it’s been fought, along with General Clark, along with Howard Dean and not necessarily in companionship politically on the issue of the war with people like Lieberman, Edwards and Gephardt? Are you one of the anti-war candidates?" KERRY: "I am -- Yes, in the sense that I don’t believe the president took us to war as he should have, yes, absolutely." (MSNBC’s "Hardball," 1/6/04)

7. August 2004: In Response To President’s Question About How He Would Have Voted If He Knew Then What He Knows Now, Kerry Confirmed That He Would Still Have Voted For Use Of Force Resolution. SEN. JOHN KERRY: "Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it's the right authority for a president to have. But I would have used that authority as I have said throughout this campaign, effectively. I would have done this very differently from the way President Bush has." (CNN’s "Inside Politics," 8/9/04)

8. September 2004: Kerry: Iraq Is "The Wrong War In The Wrong Place At The Wrong Time." "Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry on Monday called the invasion of Iraq ‘the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time’ and said his goal was to withdraw U.S. troops in his first White House term." (Patricia Wilson, " Kerry on Iraq: Wrong War, Wrong Place, Wrong Time", Reuters, 9/6/04)

9. September 2004: Kerry Says There Were No Circumstances Under Which We Should Have Gone To War, But He Was Still Right To Vote For It. IMUS: "Do you think there are any circumstances we should have gone to war in Iraq, any?" KERRY: "Not under the current circumstances, no. There are none that I see. I voted based on weapons of mass destruction. The President distorted that, and I've said that. I mean, look, I can't be clearer. But I think it was the right vote based on what Saddam Hussein had done, and I think it was the right thing to do to hold him accountable. I've said a hundred times, there was a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. The president chose the wrong way. Can't be more direct than that." (MSNBC's "Imus In The Morning," 9/15/04)

10. Kerry Said That The Removal Of Saddam Hussein Has Left America "Less Secure." KERRY: "Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell. But that was not, that was not in and of itself, a reason to go to war. The satisfaction - The satisfaction that we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: we have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At New York University, New York, NY, 9/20/04)

11. Kerry On Whether The Iraq War Was Worth It: "It Depends On The Outcome." DIANE SAWYER: "Was the war in Iraq worth it?" KERRY: "We should not have gone to war knowing the information that we know today." SAWYER: "So it was not worth it?" KERRY: "We should not - it depends on the outcome ultimately, and that depends on the leadership." (ABC’s "Good Morning America," 9/29/04)
_________________
-------------------
GiveMeFreedom
http://www.anysoldier.com
http://www.operationac.com
Support our Soldiers!!

[MrJapan]

Sorry, this is a double post from me.... didn't think this thread was still alive
I also posted in:
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11385&start=15

That is absolutely amazing... all of the decades of records to sift through.... That is what I call dedication.. Thatnks goes out to all involved!!!

I am 34 years old... have voted twice in my life, never thought my vote would count. I always had my hopes for who would win the election, but I never really got 'into the politics'..... as a matter of fact, earlier today, while I was trying to keep up with the elections from over here... I was wondering if there is a cycle (a particular age) when within a certain age group that those particular people thought that 'this is the most difficult and important election to date'. I am now thinking that.... I have been more involved (at least passively, I can't do much research from over here..) and I am leaching from the research of the people that spend hours/days/weeks/months doing all of that hard work to make something impossible happen. I wish I was over there so I could try to assist in any way I can because, to me anyway.. in my lifetime so far, this IS the most impoortant election.... If it turns sour, it possibly could be the end of our country, our freedom as we know it. I don't want to sound like I am exaggerating, but that's how I feel. I feel guilty not being able to help more.

I could donate my UFC to my local library (LOL), but it wouldn't do much good here. All I can really do is loan it out to my friends (I have no American friends here, so it doesn't mean much to them..) so that maybe I can help them understand some of the inner workings of the USA.... and maybe understand that their political thinking is much different than ours. That's one of the hardest things I have found, being over here for 6 years, ... They can't comprehend the system in USA and place it parallel to their system... It doesn't work that way.

I am babbling because I know I post a lot of gibberish here and I want you all to know that I really am with you, and just as important with the soldiers that are still not only fighting for OUR freedom.. but also the freedom of people all over the world. If I could go back again, I would.... I would look forward to going through boot again (need the exercise Laughing )... and even a little mental REconditioning Very Happy

Anyway.... I'm babbling again.... Thank you so much for giving all of your free time to dig up what you can find... Has this ever been done to this extent before? It's amazing..

I'm on a roll and can't get out now... so...... f.o.r.c.i.n.g. mY fIn..gErs AW..aY F.r.O.m KB!!!

Love you all... and bless you all... for those that aren't religeous... cross your fingers Wink
CBP



Sorry ADMIN... if it's the wrong place, please feel free to delete
_________________
USAF
31 TFW (307th/309th)
Homestead AFB (until Andrew took care of it, 1992)
Desert Shield/Desert Storm
Texas Army NG 13E FDC
BTRY B 3-133 Arty

[Chuck Z Ombie AC2000]

I find it laughable that so many of you guys are worried about Bush not destroying Kery. Did anything Kerry say change your vote? Did Bush say anything different to change your vote? at worst Bush doesnt get the rest of the swing voters and keeps the numbers he has. In that case he still wins. At best Bush gets more voters becuase the people who were expecting Kerry to give them a reason to vote for him were sorely disappointed. Kerry was only bringing Bush lite to the table. Who grabs the imitation when you can get for the original?
_________________
John Kerry, R.I.P. (Rot In Paris)

[joeshero]

Some people think that Kerry won the debate. Well, the reason is simple. He still stood after 90 minutes. Like in boxing, the cons thought that Bush would knock him down in the debate. Kerry threw punches, a lot of random punches, but only few landed on Bush. On the other hand, Bush landed more than few well calculated punches.

Examples of Bush's punches: global test, asking countries to die for a mistake, the only consistency is inconsistency.

So...Bush won the debate. No doubt about it. Like in boxing, you don't win a fight because you wear an Armani outfit or got a manicure the day before. And you don't win a fight because you just throw a lot of random punches. The more you observe the debate, the more you convince yourself that most Kerry's statements were full of mistakes. They are random punches.
_________________
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

[GiveMeFreedom]

from the National Review 'Kerry Spot'

Kerry obviously won on style. He looked good. But who has the material to work with and exploit over the next week? Clearly Bush.

1. "Global test?" Major mistake. We're gonna hear a lot about this. Probably today. Hopefully today.
2. Kerry didn't seem to know there were already sanctions on Iran.
3. Summit. Summit. Summit. Blah, Blah. Blah.
4. Kerry is opposed to the nuclear bunker busters as though we're the moral equivelant of our enemies. How very 80's of him.
5. Kerry certainly won Kim Jong Il's vote.
6. Kerry wants both bi-lateral AND multi-lateral discussions with North Korea? Sheesh. How about a stand? Sorry, forgot who we're dealing with.
7. Kerry said nuclear proliferation is his greatest fear and opposes missile defense? Uhm, okay.
8. He mis-spoke about the 87 billion dollars? How about, as Bush might put it, he mis-voted? Terrible reponse.
9. Was Iraq a mistake, or wasn't it? He doesn't know. He says both in the same debate. I rub my hands in anticipation of the RNC's commercial on this.
10. No subways were closed during the Republican convention. Duh.

There's little I see for Kerry to work with coming out of this debate in a substantive way. Bush can make hay. Kerry can pump his fist in the air. I'd prefer both but given the choice, I'll take the hay.
_________________
-------------------
GiveMeFreedom
http://www.anysoldier.com
http://www.operationac.com
Support our Soldiers!!

[Steve Z]

Kerry threw a LOT of "random punches", most of them not based on facts.
Bush threw relatively few punches, but he stuck to the facts and never said anything false. The result of the debate will depend on whether "undecided" or "shaky" Bush voters actually BELIEVE what Kerry said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/polls/2004-09-30-debate-poll.htm

In this poll, Kerry "won" the debate 53-37, but after the debate,

Handling Iraq: Bush 54 Kerry 43
Trust as Commander in Chief: Bush 54 Kerry 44
Agrees with you on issues: Bush 49 Kerry 46
Was more believable: Bush 50 Kerry 45

Kerry clearly expressed himself better, but people didn't believe him. Maybe lots of people have been paying attention to previous campaign statements (and Swift Boat ads) and know that Kerry lies and flip-flops, and Bush does what he says, and sticks with his positions.

Now if the Bush campaign and SBVT and other pro-Bush or anti-Kerry groups can point out and prove all of Kerry's lies in the debate (there are ample pickings), Bush's "believable" numbers will go up. 50% is a good place to start!

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/Vote2004/debate_poll_040930.html

This poll shows that Kerry "won" the debate 45% - 36%, but voter preferences went from Bush 50-46 to Bush 51-47. In other words, 2% of the undecided made a decision, split their vote, and the result is a wash.

When I was watching the debate, I thought that Bush missed lots of opportunities to debunk Kerry's lies. But these polls show that voters are smarter than pundits think they are. We can hope that others who watched the debate think like this sample, and get to work on debunking the lies that Kerry told.
_________________
The traitor will crater!

[MrJapan]

[joeshero]

John Kerry will debate Osama Bin Laden about whether terrorism is good or bad. George W. Bush would just kick OBL's ass.
_________________
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

[MrJapan]

[LimaCharlie]

[nathan roland]

I'm not sure what y'all are so worried about? Bush did a great job last night and besides I did hear Ole John say...

KERRY: I believe in being strong and resolute and determined. And I will hunt down and kill the terrorists, wherever they are.

So if we all pitch in together we can send Kerry a one way ticket to "Wherever They Are" and get Ole John started on just that task.

[hleone]

Looking back "the morning after," I think many of us probably had unreasonable expectations of W finishing off this pathetic candidate last night and coasting to a landslide win in November.

But Kerry had a huge built-in advantage on this tough subject of war. All John Kerry had to do in the debate was go 90 minutes without an obvious flip-flop and talk a good game about how he won't make the "mistakes" George Bush has made.

While President Bush had to defend very difficult decisions of a tough war costing American lives.

We all know Kerry can "talk a good game." That's his problem - he's all talk and no action.

So the debate was going to be a comparison of Bush's defense of real-time decisions and the tough and ugly realities of war and Kerry's 20/20 hindsight criticism and phony promises of how he would have "done everything better."

Kerry had the much easier task.

President Bush actually won the debate on substance, because he presented a solid case of how and why he has prosecuted this war on terror and the value of his unwavering commitment to win.

Kerry's hollow words fired up his base, especially his cheap "Monday morning quarterbacking" of tough decisions made by Bush.

I don't think Kerry's stylistic victory will hold up as a winner on substance for anyone other than his own diehard partisan supporters. Their dwindling hopes definitely were boosted by his performance, and they will now pursue the rest of the campaign with renewed enthusiasm.

OK, this traitorous candidate is not completely defeated yet, as we had hoped.

So now we must continue to expose this guy's lack of a moral compass and his penchant for dishonesty and self-aggrandizement for another month.

I believe we will still relish a lopsided defeat of this imbecile on November 3rd.

Time for another SwiftVet donation!

[joeshero]