SwiftVets.com

ord33 · Rear Admiral Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 670 Location: Ohio

After looking at this video hundreds of times, I have tried several "theories" of what the object could be. If the Kerry Campaign is claiming it was a "black pen", after watching the video (as much as I hate to say this), it does look plausible that the object could be a fancy pen in its case (like they come when you buy them), and Kerry flips open the case and pulls out the pen. Maybe I'm being way too open minded here and I hate to support Kerry in any way, but does someone else see this?

But then you ask, why would the pen be in a case? (To keep it from leaking on his suit???)

Insight from anyone?

Regardless, it boils down to he did violate the rules by bringing whatever item was to the podium. The campaign and Kerry were clearly well informed of the rules, as they were raising holy hell over the "countdown" lights placed on the podium prior to the debate and agreed & signed the "memo". Kerry must think he can get away with everything and not follow the rules.

kimberly · PO2 Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 377

Debs · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:57 am Post subject:

It's really irrelevant what Kerry took from his pocket, whether a pen, palm pilot, cheat sheets, or anything else, as we will never really know. But the point is he CHEATED and he admitted it and it makes him look sneaky, underhanded, and above the rules. It just reinforces that he is a rich, priviledged, elitist snob who thinks he doesn't have to go by the rules everyone else does. People don't like cheaters in any competition and this will not play well with the "folks" who abide by the rules in their daily lives. That is what must be focused on and people can draw their own conclusions as to what he had - the point is, HE CHEATED.

Debbie
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"No greater love..."

Ohio Voter · PO2 Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 360

We have Dan Rather as an example of how the media "shares" information to get the result the liberals want. It didn't have to be Lehrer who gave Kerry the questions. I doubt the questions were guarded like a national secret. Who is Lehrer's producer, intern, secretary...? I put nothing past the democrats.

Fort Campbell · Vice Admiral Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 896

Debs · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:21 am Post subject:

Also, it appears that Kerry and his campaign think this is no big deal, and seem a bit haughty and arrogant and are trying to laugh it off and make the Bush supporters out to be mean for even bringing it up. How dare someone call him out for CHEATING - isn't he entitled to be above the rules just because he is the HERO - John Forbes Kerry? That will not fly in fly over country. What's worse than just a cheater is an unrepentent cheater who gives the impression that he IS above the rules. This is far worse than the Kerry Kamp is realizing as they don't think this is any big deal, and that will infuriate people even more because it just reinforces what we all know Kerry is - a rich, elitist, arrogant, condescending snob who has an inflated ego and an entitlement mentality. If we play this right, this is worse for Kerry than he realizes as he is not in touch in any way with regular folks and what they think and feel about being deceived. That arrogant sense of entitlement will not carry him to the White House.

Debbie
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"No greater love..."

Fort Campbell · Vice Admiral Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 896

From INDC........................This says it all very well.

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/001054.php

kimberly · PO2 Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 377

Along the lines of what you are saying, the only thing that matters is that he cheated, what if all of the speculation really is true? If Kerry had a cheat sheet and if it pissed Bush off affecting his responses, or if Kerry 'anticipated' the questions that would be asked, it is possible that there would have been a totally different outcome. Rassmussen was just on Fox this morning and said if Bush had 'won' the debate, the election would be 'over'. I do agree with what you are saying, but for said reason, I do think that it is important to know exactly what was in his pocket.

For those of you who are speculating that Bush may have seen and been affected by Kerry's 'deed', would the RNC NOT be addressing the issue because they themselves do not want to been accused of 'sour grapes' and so are relying on the bloggers/media to make the accusation? Just a thought.

Kimberly

oasis · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:47 am Post subject:

kimberly · PO2 Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 377

On Fox and Friends, Mancow just brought up the issue of the cheat sheet. Ed quickly dismissed it saying that an in-depth study had been done and it was just a black pen. End of discussion.

Looks like the MSM is going to accept whatever the DNC says.

Kimberly

Fort Campbell · Vice Admiral Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 896

Debs · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:21 pm Post subject:

The Bush campaign won't touch this, but I think maybe Bush saw Kerry take something out and knew he was breaking the rules, but there was no way he could say anything, but his facial expressions certainly could be accounted for if he knew at the time Kerry was cheating. We'll never know for sure what it was - if he just wanted to use his own pen, then why not negotiate that beforehand - and if the pen was in a case, was something else in the case with the pen? Just wanting his own pen doesn't pass the smell test. Maybe we should just lay out the facts and plant a few seeds of what it might have been, and let the people come to their own conclusions about what it was - the point is he cheated, he was sneaky, he was dishonest, and that will not resound well with people. It goes to his character and his trustworthiness. Too much whining about it could look petty, but if it is dropped, then everyone will know Kerry got away with cheating - and that will hurt him. And I really don't think it will be dropped as it will become a joke - and although it is not a joke, it is about how to best proceed with this in a way to hurt Kerry, and him getting away with it will not set well with people who are honest and follow the rules in their own lives. It's about strategery. Wink

Debbie
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"No greater love..."

margie · Seaman Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 187

I haven't seen any re-runs of the debate, but noticed him taking a papaer from his jacket pocket. I didn't know that it was against the rules at the time. His hands were also shaking, and he initally appeared very nervous. IMO after he wasn't called on it,(thinking he got away with it) he calmed down.

kimberly · PO2 Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 377

Endaar · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:45 pm Post subject:

Sorry, but there's no way this is a pen in it's case either.

Any of the expensive pens - Mont Blanc, Waterman, for example - typically come in large, heavy cases. And they're not white. I've got both a Mont Blanc and a Waterman here; the Mont Blanc comes in a very large black plastic case that is absurdly heavy to put in one's suit pocket. The Waterman came in a somewhat smaller, less impressive case that would still be uncomfortable to carry around and is nevertheless dark blue.

Plus, let's face facts. I may have bothered to put a $175 pen back in its case when I first got it, but that gets old after a while. I find it hard to believe someone with Kerry's money is going to be all that concerned about a pen that is pretty insignificant to them.

On top of that, you have the fact that Kerry's entire act of removing the item from his pocket was done in such a way as to not be visible to the President, moderator or audience. If the rear-view camera hadn't been broadcasting - which was probably unexpected - this would not have been caught. The very fact that he did this in a secretive way is indicitive he was doing something blatently wrong.

Endaar