SwiftVets.com

[Rdtf]

would this revelation effect him being a Prosecutor?

By the way, Carter let a lot of people slide when he took office, one of his first things. Kerry was probably one of the many.

[billinflorida]

This was a GREAT Post from Mathman!

[twicearound]

UPDATE ON http://powerlineblog.com/archives/008170.php spoke with Lipscomb
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twicearound

[Geano]

Is Link bad? Yeah...take off the comma at end of URL...that'll fix it...
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MSM Lead Nov 3 2004 "Kerry Oval Office Hopes killed by 10,000 Mice..."
Candidate had declared mice "only a nuisance".
States they "moved too Swiftly"....

[twicearound]

taken care of need my glasses
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twicearound

[Mark]

I regret raining on all this euphoria but must recommend SBVT proceed with caution.
First, the SECNAV letter honorably discharging him makes reference to a Board which may have been a routine process to administratively dump Inactives from the rolls. The cited sections do not change that possibility.
Second, all this stuff about Dishonorables, BCDs, OTHs, etc. is almost certainly malarkey. An officer gets an Honorable or a Dismissal (which requires a GCM).
A more fertile field is in the thread about his security clearance. But even in that thread the posts are rife with disinformation such as what clearances would be required on Gridley and for what (I am a former Gridley OPS Officer who had a TS/SCI).
Let's not damage SVBT credibility with conjecture, especially some which could easily be disputed.
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Retired USN Capt.; Market Time vicinity ChuLai 6/67-2/68; Maddox 8/64 Tonkin Gulf; NGFS I Corps 6-12/65; Saigon evac. 4/75.

[Fort Campbell]

[d19thdoc]

IS THIS WHY BUSH'S STANDARD ANSWER TO ALLEGATIONS ABOUT HIS NATIONAL GUARD SERVICE IS "I RECEIVED AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOUNDS LIKE HE KNOWS WHAT IS COMING FOR KERRY.
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For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide"

[JCJR]

[ArmyWife]

[Anker-Klanker]

For what it's worth, here's my considered take on the uproar of the day:

The Lipscomb (and Navy Chief) article definitely established that there's a skunk in the woodpile (but that's not news to you or me). But, unfortunately, it left the door open to the all the speculators and gad-flys who have opinions (not facts) on the subject.

All the self-proclaimed "experts" who have weighed in on the subject - 95% of whom do not really know what they're talking about - here, and all over the blogosphere, have confused the issue, not clarified it. I think most self-respecting reporters, even those quasi-friendly to our cause, will not touch the story now, particularly in light of the embarassment of Rathergate. This, in retrospect, probably was one of those stories best left without all the comments.

Unfortunately, I doubt that anything is going to clarify this issue until Kerry releases his service records. And we're probably past the time when his signing of a Form 180 is going to have any effect on this election, which is already underway BTW (what with absentee ballots and early voting already started in many places).

I think we need to all step back, take a deep breath, and figure out what we can really do to be effective in these last days. Sorry for the sobering thoughts.

[homesteader]

There's an old war movie about a commando mission to blow up a Nazi dam far behind enemy lines. The commandos carried only a small amount of explosives, not nearly enough to dent the surface of the dam. They succeeded by getting into the bowels of the dam and setting off a small charge. It took a while (enough time to escape) but the weakening of the foundation coupled with the water pressure caused the dam to fail.

The Lipscomb article is another explosion at the base of the Kerry dam. Stolen Honor will increase the pressure. The wait is frustrating but we have to have faith that it will collapse.

[Rdtf]

I found this doing a basic search -
See bold text in body


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/vietnam/vietnam_1-21-77.html

The MacNeil/Lehrer Report -- January 21, 1977
CARTER'S PARDON
A discussion on President Carter's pardoning of Vietnam War draft dodgers.



Part 1: Louise Ransom of Americans for Amnesty
Part 2: Tip Marlow of Veterans of Foreign Wars
Part 3: Rep. Elizabeth Holtzman
Part 4: Robert Alotta, military historian
Part 5: A panel discussion

Just a day after Jimmy Carter's inaguration, he followed through on a contentious campaign promise, granting a presidential pardon to those who had avoided the draft during the Vietnam war by either not registering or traveling abroad.

The pardon meant the government was giving up forever the right to prosecute what the administration said were hundreds of thousands of draft-dodgers.

Some in veterans' groups, like Tip Marlow of the Veterans of Foreign Wars organization, said Carter did too much by allowing those who evaded the draft to come home without fear of prosecution.

"We were very displeased with the pardon," Marlow said. "We feel that there is a better way for people who have broken laws to come back into the country, and that's though one of the pillars of the formation of our nation -- and that is our present system of justice."

Meanwhile, many in amnesty groups say that Carter's pardon did too little. They pointed out that the president did not include deserters -- those who served in the war and left before their tour was completed -- or soldiers who recieved a less-than-honorable discharge. Civilian protesters, selective service employees and those who initiated any act of violence also were not covered in the pardon.

Louise Ransom, affiliate director of Americans for Amnesty, said she believed the problems with the draft resulted from the way it was conducted.

"There seems to be a myth that because you once went into the army, there's some kind of esprit that you have accepted or believed in," Ransom said. "Well the truth of the matter is that so many of the draft-eligible young men legally avoided the draft that ... all the services took their people predominantly from poor and minority people in this country -- took them right out of high school before they had the opportunity to even examine whether they were conscientious objectors."

Though not all of the groups calling for amnesty received it, Rep. Elizabeth Holtzman (D-NY) said Carter's pardon was a good first step toward healing the war's wounds.

"I'm pleased that the pardon was issued, I'm pleased that it was done on the first day [of Carter's administration] and I'm pleased that President Carter kept a commitment that he made very clear to the American people," Holtzman said. "I would have liked to have seen it broader, I would like to have seen it extend to some of the people who are clearly not covered and whose families will continue to be separated from them ... but I don't think President Carter has closed the door on this category of people."

Military historian Robert Alotta linked the problems with the Vietnam-era draft with those the U.S. saw in its other armed conflicts.

"In the study of the wars the U.S. has been in," he said, "I cannot label one as a popular war -- one that had everyone's support."

Vietnam's gradual evolution, Alotta said, made it seem to some that "we were involved in a war that's not the United States' war."

[Mark]

In direct response to ArmyWife, my service on Gridley was 73-75, years after Kerry. However, I am confident a junior Ensign would not have required a clearance above TS on Gridley and that only if he was on a SAS team (possible but not probable). I cannot imagine Nixon/Colson getting involved in his discharge character but in any event dishonorable, BCD, etc. would not have been options.
I am far more curious as to how he got out of all NR obligations. On other threads folk have opinied that it was standard to go directly from about three years ACDU to Inactive Reserve but that ignores his obligation incurred for OCS which I believe entailed about five years Active/Active Reserve combination. I have seen that OCS contract cited in another thread earlier. (The Navy always exacted OBLISERV for promotions, schoold, etc.) How did he get out of the Active Reserve component, especially when discharged early from his Active obligation? In what documentation is he excused from that obligation? Why would the Navy either excuse him OR ignore its requirements? Maybe because it no longer could use him in any capacity as an Officer due to his VVAW activities and consorting with known enemies? Perhaps his security clearance had been pulled, especially in conjuction with the FBI activities shadowing him (the FBI also is involved in clearances). An officer who can't be cleared to at least Secret (the level the FBI does with its NAC) is of no use for anything.
Chief..you sniff anything here?
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Retired USN Capt.; Market Time vicinity ChuLai 6/67-2/68; Maddox 8/64 Tonkin Gulf; NGFS I Corps 6-12/65; Saigon evac. 4/75.

[BrianC]

100 pages still being withheld by the Navy.

Kerry is a liar when he's repeatedly said that "all his records have been released".

Kerry is clearly hiding something.

Sign the Form 180, you gutless wonder Kerry!