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jwbarden
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 37
Location: Orlando, FL
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 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Mark,
Kerry extended on active duty to get the admiral's aide billet that rocketed him out of Vietnam. This ammended the OCS contract and negated the 2 year SELRES obligation. Once in Brooklyn, where he did damned little Navy work for the admiral, Kerry requested and was granted early release from active duty. Very slick. Sort of like disputing what the meaning of is, is. |
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Mark
Ensign
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 66
Location: Virginia Beach
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want to challenge that extension since I really don't know. However, my notes indicate he showed on Gridley, his first real assignment, 12/67. March backward the 4 months of OCS and perhaps several months of enroute schools and we are at about 5-6/67. If those suppositions are correct then his 1/70 eatly discharge whould have been short of the standard 3 years for an OCS type USNR.
Something doesn't compute. It looks like the Navy had to do something with him for about a year when it let him out of Vietnam early in 4/69. As always, release of all his record would clarify.
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Retired USN Capt.; Market Time vicinity ChuLai 6/67-2/68; Maddox 8/64 Tonkin Gulf; NGFS I Corps 6-12/65; Saigon evac. 4/75. |
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Rurik
PO3
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 251
Location: Daschle-cleansed Free South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Oh NavyChief - Thank you. Thank you! Thank you!
This is the first time I've actually received a present for the anniversary of my DEROS day. Again Thank you!
_________________
Hating John Kerry continuously since 1971.
Essayons!
Fight Build and Destroy |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark wrote: | I don't want to challenge that extension since I really don't know. However, my notes indicate he showed on Gridley, his first real assignment, 12/67. March backward the 4 months of OCS and perhaps several months of enroute schools and we are at about 5-6/67. If those suppositions are correct then his 1/70 eatly discharge whould have been short of the standard 3 years for an OCS type USNR.
Something doesn't compute. It looks like the Navy had to do something with him for about a year when it let him out of Vietnam early in 4/69. As always, release of all his record would clarify. |
he butlered for an Admiral for a year before getting out early to 'run' for office.
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Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged. |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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you know, I'm just sick of it all.... doesn't matter what we do, kerry has it all sewed up.... we've been asleep at the wheel for to many years.... letting people like Kennedy etc have authority...
all the reporters seem to be chicken livers, along with the networks....
(I am actually sick today or I'd be down at Gammage handing out copies like I planned)
when I feel better, I'm gonna email the networks, including Fox what I think of them and I hope they enjoy a Red America!
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged. |
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swiftsocks
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Hate to beg off here all.....but am trying to gather friends to watch debate. Can someone fill me in on what the NY Sun Times news is supposed to be ? Really appreciate it..........
Go Bush-Cheney ! |
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dmackto
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 719
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:03 am Post subject: |
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did anyone listen to hannity today and if so did he mention the discharge?
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Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal
This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| swiftsocks wrote: | Hate to beg off here all.....but am trying to gather friends to watch debate. Can someone fill me in on what the NY Sun Times news is supposed to be ? Really appreciate it..........
Go Bush-Cheney ! |
read and smile
Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge
BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB - Special to the Sun
October 13, 2004
An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.
The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.
According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.
A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.
The document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972. It is highly unlikely that either the man who at that time was a Vietnam Veterans Against the War leader, John Kerry, requested or the Navy accepted an additional six year reserve commitment. And the Claytor document indicates proceedings to reverse a less than honorable discharge that took place sometime prior to February 1978.
The most routine time for Mr. Kerry's discharge would have been at the end of his six-year obligation, in 1972. But how was it most likely to have come about?
NBC's release this March of some of the Nixon White House tapes about Mr. Kerry show a great deal of interest in Mr. Kerry by Nixon and his executive staff, including, perhaps most importantly, Nixon's special counsel, Charles Colson. In a meeting the day after Mr. Kerry's Senate testimony, April 23, 1971, Mr. Colson attacks Mr. Kerry as a "complete opportunist...We'll keep hitting him, Mr. President."
Mr. Colson was still on the case two months later, according to a memo he wrote on June 15,1971, that was brought to the surface by the Houston Chronicle. "Let's destroy this young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader." Nixon had been a naval officer in World War II. Mr. Colson was a former Marine captain. Mr. Colson had been prodded to find "dirt" on Mr. Kerry, but reported that he couldn't find any.
The Nixon administration ran FBI surveillance on Mr. Kerry from September 1970 until August 1972. Finding grounds for an other than honorable discharge, however, for a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, given his numerous activities while still a reserve officer of the Navy, was easier than finding "dirt."
For example, while America was still at war, Mr. Kerry had met with the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong delegation to the Paris Peace talks in May 1970 and then held a demonstration in July 1971 in Washington to try to get Congress to accept the enemy's seven point peace proposal without a single change. Woodrow Wilson threw Eugene Debs, a former presidential candidate, in prison just for demonstrating for peace negotiations with Germany during World War I. No court overturned his imprisonment. He had to receive a pardon from President Harding.
Mr. Colson refused to answer any questions about his activities regarding Mr. Kerry during his time in the Nixon White House. The secretary of the Navy at the time during the Nixon presidency is the current chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Warner. A spokesman for the senator, John Ullyot, said, "Senator Warner has no recollection that would either confirm or challenge any representation that Senator Kerry received a less than honorable discharge."
The "board of officers" review reported in the Claytor document is even more extraordinary because it came about "by direction of the President." No normal honorable discharge requires the direction of the president. The president at that time was James Carter. This adds another twist to the story of Mr. Kerry's hidden military records.
Mr. Carter's first act as president was a general amnesty for draft dodgers and other war protesters. Less than an hour after his inauguration on January 21, 1977, while still in the Capitol building, Mr. Carter signed Executive Order 4483 empowering it. By the time it became a directive from the Defense Department in March 1977 it had been expanded to include other offenders who may have had general, bad conduct, dishonorable discharges, and any other discharge or sentence with negative effect on military records. In those cases the directive outlined a procedure for appeal on a case by case basis before a board of officers. A satisfactory appeal would result in an improvement of discharge status or an honorable discharge.
Mr. Kerry has repeatedly refused to sign Standard Form 180, which would allow the release of all his military records. And some of his various spokesmen have claimed that all his records are already posted on his Web site. But the Washington Post already noted that the Naval Personnel Office admitted that they were still withholding about 100 pages of files.
If Mr. Kerry was the victim of a Nixon "enemies list" hit, one might have expected him to wear it like a badge of honor, like many others such as his friend Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon Papers, CBS's Daniel Schorr, or the actor Paul Newman, who had made Mr. Colson's original list of 20 "enemies."
There are a number of categories of discharges besides honorable. There are general discharges, medical discharges, bad conduct discharges, as well as other than honorable and dishonorable discharges. There is one odd coincidence that gives some weight to the possibility that Mr. Kerry was dishonorably discharged. Mr. Kerry has claimed that he lost his medal certificates and that is why he asked that they be reissued. But when a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well. And five months after Mr. Kerry joined the U.S. Senate in 1985, on one single day, June 4, all of Mr. Kerry's medals were reissued.
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The Ghost
Seaman
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| dmackto wrote: | | did anyone listen to hannity today and if so did he mention the discharge? |
said he was going to do some research into it for a couple of days before he would go into it |
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dmackto
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 719
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| The Ghost wrote: | | dmackto wrote: | | did anyone listen to hannity today and if so did he mention the discharge? |
said he was going to do some research into it for a couple of days before he would go into it |
thanks
_________________
Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal
This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill |
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JimT
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:56 am Post subject: Discharge research?? |
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http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=13125_The_Mystery_Of_Kerrys_Navy_Discharge#comments
| Quote: | teethgrinder 10/13/2004 08:49AM PST
Anybody here familiar with the Special Discharge Review Program initiated in 1977 under Jiminy Carter ? The program was created because Carter pardoned all the draft dodgers in order to please everyone. Then he had to deal with those that said "Hey, wait a minute, what about the people who entered the military and then decided to bug out?" So, Carter issued a directive instructing the military to conduct a special review of less than honorable discharges. And, yes, the program could account for a 1978 discharge date. (But what about all those who served honorably? Congress denied VA benefits to many of those that had upgraded discharges via the SDRP.)
Already done the homework
The SDRP proceedings should result in the publication of a Decisional Document that is publicly accessible here:
Armed Forces Reading Room
1941 Jefferson-David Highway
Crystal Mall #4, Second Floor
Arlington, VA 22202-4508
The DD does not contain the name of the individual, but it should include information regarding date of enlistment, rank, medals, etc.
The records are on microfiche with a primary index using the Docket Number - which you would not know. There are secondary indexes on other microfiches that would, hopefully, make it possible to narrow down the choice of records. You should be prepared with as much 'known' information as possible. The contact person is Ms. Wanda Cooper. |
Can this be researched before it is to late?
_________________
CAP Marine |
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swiftsocks
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:07 am Post subject: |
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rdtf....
You are so kind to help me with that short cut. Thanks again !
I'm taking some time after watching the debate and following all the links posted on this thread. You have no idea how excited I am to hear that the truth about this discharge may finally come out !
Just wanted to add....
God Bless President and Mrs. Bush
God Bless John ONeil |
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ashter
Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| is dicharge information public record. I mean, how would an employer prove if an individual actually received an honorable discharge? |
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Geano
Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 237
Location: Kentucky
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:07 am Post subject: |
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ashter:
| Quote: | | how would an employer prove if an individual actually received an honorable discharge? |
We look at their DD214, which they are asked to furnish if the Military status in any way pertains to resume and potential hiring...
_________________
MSM Lead Nov 3 2004 "Kerry Oval Office Hopes killed by 10,000 Mice..."
Candidate had declared mice "only a nuisance".
States they "moved too Swiftly".... |
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KWJams
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:17 am Post subject: |
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What will Kerry's response be? 
"I actually had a dishonorable discharge -- before I got an honorable discharge"  |
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