SwiftVets.com

[moab]

Just joined. Great site. This "sparky" alpha hotel is a real piece of work. Could be he is this this "Rall" guy with a fake email address. He has way too much time on his hands though. Great points. Kerry is a self-confessed war crimes perpetraitor, guilty of numerous violations of the Geneva Conventions, much worse than the stuff at Abu Prison. So if Kerry calls for Rumsfeld's resignation becuase this stuff happened on Rummy's watch, then I would think that Kerry should step down since he actually was an officer leading paticipating in war crimes against the non-military population. Kerry really boxed himself in on this one (again).
"Make mine a scoop of chocolate, a scoop of vanilla, in a waffle cone"-John Kerry

[sparky]

Wow, a topic named after me! I'm honored.

Maob, all your questions have been answered in other topics. We've all decided that Kerry wasn't a war criminal and that he never referred to himself that way. And he can't be called a "war criminal" anyway without calling the entire war "criminal."

But we all admired Kerry's youthful idealism regarding whether common, daily, routine and pervasive practices were atrocities or not. While he later decided that what he participated in didn't count as "atrocities," those common, routine, pervasive practices did make atrocities more likely...especially those free-fire zones known by Zumwalt where noncombatants ... well, you get the picture.

We talked a bit about Lt Calley, the guy Nixon off the hook after a measley three years for mass murder and everyone else, including the brass, managed to avoid Nuremberg-type tribunals.

[Montana]

Hello Sparky

I´ve been under the weather for awhile. In and out of
the hospital.

Question

Who is this ¨ We ¨ you are referring to
when it comes to admiring Kerry? And youthful?

Is that what you are calling Kerry back then? The enlisted
men on his boat may have been youthful, but
please. Kerry spent time in Europe growing up,
went to the best schools, went to Yale. He was
a commissioned officer.

I enlisted in the navy when I was 17. As an E-1 I was
youthful. Kerry was 27.
He was a Division Officer on USS Gridly. Division officers
are suppose to councel their men, etc.

Cut the ¨youthful¨ BS. It doesn´t wash.
MONTANA

[Buddy]

But we all admired Kerry's youthful idealism

[Marine's Wife]

"We ALL ???? I DON'T THINK SO,UNLESS YOU MEAN YOU AND ALL YOUR "OTHER SELVES"

[95 bxl]

[sparky]

No, 95 bxl, I'm on the mark: when repeatedly asked what specific war crimes Kerry committed, Kerry-haters don't specify.

The reason? Because Kerry was referring to routine, everyday, commonplace and run-of--the-mill things in Vietnam:

o Shootings in free fire zones.
o Harassment and interdiction fire.
o Using 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people.
o Search and destroy missions
o Burning of villages.

If doing these things, as Kerry did under orders, is war crimes, then the whole war was criminal because they were pervasive.

I think that Kerry was wrong: those things he did were not war crimes, but war crimes did occur elsewhere because of them.

Pretty simple, really.

Let's take this step by step. Which parts do you disagree with:

o Kerry never was in a free-fire zone or used interdiction fire?
o Those things Kerry spoke out against (free-fire zone, burning villages,
interdiction fire, etc...) didn't really exist or were rare?
o Kerry was referring to something else?

I think that until you provide the quote where Kerry said "I committed war crimes" or "I committed atrocities," we're going to have to accept that the matter is far more complicated. Kerry was referring to orders from the top that outright characterize the war itself.

If you want to call those "war crimes" then you're condemning the entire war.

[waltjones]

Just ignore Sparky. He's like the defense counsel for the serial killer - it's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor.

[sparky]

C'mon, Walt, I gave you so much to respond to!

Just a simple question:

Let's take this step by step. Which parts do you disagree with:

o Kerry never was in a free-fire zone or used interdiction fire?
o Those things Kerry spoke out against (free-fire zone, burning villages,
interdiction fire, etc...) didn't really exist or were rare?
o Kerry was referring to something else?

I think that until you provide the quote where Kerry said "I committed war crimes" or "I committed atrocities," or "I'm like a serial killer" we're going to have to accept that the matter is far more complicated. Kerry was referring to orders from the top that outright characterize the war itself.

It's hard to find anyone who served in combat there who wasn't aware of free-fire zones.

[sparky]

Hey folks, I'm going to take a breather from this. I've thoroughly enjoyed it and feel well-rehearsed for defending Kerry against the smear machine this fall. This has been informative.

I'll be stepping back in by the weekend but not to the extent I have been. Kerry fans: keep up the good work at keeping these underhanded lyin' liars held accountable.

And remember: nobody here really thinks Kerry was a war criminal. It's all just play-acting since there's really no record for their guy to run on.

Sparky

(ps: at this moment 5:08 PM CST 5/12) it cannot be said that I'm running away from any argument I'm "losing" so don't try it you lyin' liars )

[Craig]