SwiftVets.com

ROWELG · Ensign Joined: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 64 Location: Minnesota

BEFORE YOU VOTE, READ ALL HE POSTS! Politics is the public debate over values, principles, and virtues. Politics is the argument deciding the heart of a civilization.

Supreme Court Justice Kennedy defines "civilization" as "obedience to law". Where there is no submission to law (internal and external values), there can be no civilization. Conservative versus Liberal human conduct has to do with "obedience to law", and defines how one willfully consents to laws and principles. One group is a conservative (read from) translation of law. One group is a liberal (read into) translation of law, always reading between the lines.

Conservatives accept laws and principles, per se, as written, by not reading into the words their own ego spin. Conversely, liberals look at law as a guideline of reason. The modern Liberal examines the American Constitution as a "living" document, meaning they can alter their translation over time. To them, "ends justify the means". To them there is no black and white, just 100% gray. The RIGHT to bear arms in 2004 differs from the 1776 RIGHTS, per their private reasoning.

Current Liberal Supreme Court justices are now looking beyond our Constitution, our Civil Code, into foreign and international laws as to just what is RIGHT (constitutional) or not RIGHT (not constitutional). EQUALITY RIGHTS trump majority laws legislated and authorized by Congresses, Governors, Mayors, and Presidents.

American Civilization is (was) a LEGAL system, not a JUSTICE system. American Civilization was founded upon LAWS authored by the elected majority via congress and city councils. We arrest by laws. We judge by laws. We condemn and sentence by laws. Nonetheless, to the liberal, to the leftists, RIGHTS trump law; thus rights trump justice, thus rights trump NATIONAL CULTURE as we know it. The minority, not the majority, has the RIGHT to rule.

You wonder why the largest body of delegates to the Democratic Convention is teachers and lawyers, not labor or workers? One body propagandizes and softens the masses with their egotistical views of RIGHTS, and the other body jumps in and makes an extravagant livelihood on RIGHTS lawsuits. You wonder why you see a great civilization only in the rear view mirror?
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Politics: public debate over ideas/values to decide the heart of a civilization.
Debate: To provoke thought in open minded readers and listeners.
Partisan: BLIND, prejudiced, unreasoned devotion to a party, faction, envisioned theory, or person.

publius · Ensign Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 69

"...to the liberal, to the leftists, RIGHTS trump law..." -ROWELG

Yes!, the one thing you got right.

Let me see if I understand. It is your firm position that for conservatives law trumps rights?

Do most conservatives here agree with the following:

1. For liberals, rights trump law.
2. For conservatives, law trumps rights.

(I should put up a poll, probably.)
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Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. -Gen Omar N. Bradley

War Dog · Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject:

fortdixlover · Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:40 pm Post subject:

publius · Ensign Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 69

"On appeasement and moral relativity (moral neutrality)..." -FDL

Moral relativity is not moral neutrality. Beyond that, pick the right topic and we are all moral relativists.

Moral absolute: It is wrong to kill another person.

Moral relativism: While generally true, there are exceptions for self-defense, soldiers killing soldiers in war, execution of the duly convicted in an appropriately capital case, etc.
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Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. -Gen Omar N. Bradley

ROWELG · Ensign Joined: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 64 Location: Minnesota

That is correct, law trumps right. And just who is this great know all centralized ego who will DICTATE just what is RIGHT, and what is not. You the special interest liberal? Not a body of elected lawyers, elected by the majority?

We are a civilization of law. I stated before that Justice Kennedy said, "No obedience to law, no civilization". He also said that one of the most important functions of public schools is to teach obedience. And that is not only to laws, but rules, and parents, and work ethics, and showing up at work on time, etc. Maybe that is why prisons are not full of Republicans or conservatives.

Our justice system is a legal system. If the laws are not RIGHT, RIGHT to your private ego purpose, or Moral, Moral to your ego purpose, change them through the democratic legislative process.

That is the liberal view, that ends justify the means, and breaking the law for any self determined good is moral. Expending energy to change laws is beyond them. The liberal view is only a 33% view and they will not hesitate to break the laws, or alter the constitutional translations to get their way, as we have lately seen by the San Francisco Mayor.

That is what liberal means, a liberal translation of statutes, a generalized negative view of law. Makes you wonder why most lawyers are liberal, and are the major delegates to the Democratic Party in July.

ROWELG · Ensign Joined: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 64 Location: Minnesota

Moral absolute: It is wrong to kill another person.

If your moral ethics are biblical, since the beginning of recorded history, there is clearly a distinction between MURDER and KILLING. It is wrong to MURDER another person. That is the argument going on with abortion and euthenasia, is it murder, or killing, or neither.

Prisons with all the comforts of home are modern facilities. We don't call them PRISONS any more. They are CORRECTIONAL facilities. Over the centuries, there were only temporary jails. Anything serious, really criminal, justice removed them from society, RIGHTfully so. Murderers could not be given a life sentence without parole, at taxpayers expense, as there were no prisons. So they were KILLED by society. But, now, RIGHTS trumps JUSTICE. RIGHTS now support the criminal, not the victims. RIGHTS supports the terrorist murderers, not the guards.

publius · Ensign Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 69

ASPB · Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject:

Yeah Judges, especially liberal judges! RigHHHHHt!

ROWELG · Ensign Joined: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 64 Location: Minnesota

Your answer to what central ego will determine what is RIGHT, or not RIGHT, you answered "Uh, that would be the Constitution. And judges."

Like paper and ink documents thinks and talks!

Yes, you have stated exactly what the liberal value system and motives are all about. You believe that non-elected liberal judges should translate the words of the constitution to their, and your, secular values and MAKE their own unwritten ruling. Liberals choose court rulings, over law.

You are proof that liberalism is not about freedom, not about the process of free elections to choose law makers and law enforcers. Supreme Court Justices and judges are not elected, and most have life long duty. There is no consequence or recourse for their actions.

I think I can speak for we the military war veterans. We did not fight or risk life to defend some liberal judge, who has some RIGHTIST axe to grind.

publius · Ensign Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 69

ROWELG kindly explain the Bill of Rights.
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Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. -Gen Omar N. Bradley

publius · Ensign Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 69

" I think I can speak for we the military war veterans. We did not fight or risk life to defend some liberal judge, who has some RIGHTIST axe to grind." -ROWELG

That's not a standard use of the term rightist. You mean a liberal judge who decides cases about citizens' rights or is in some way concerned about citizens' rights?
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Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. -Gen Omar N. Bradley

publius · Ensign Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 69

ROWELG, judges interpret the law and the Constitution. Don't you think the law and the Constitution need interpreting? Who does that?

Do you think it is up to a state legislature or to congress to determine if the laws they pass are constitutional?
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Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. -Gen Omar N. Bradley

War Dog · Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject:

Don't you just love the way that liberals talk and parse words? Very Happy

Woof!
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"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.

When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit."

publius · Ensign Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 69

Yeah, woof, ain't it hell we use the dictionary instead of making it up?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rightist
2 entries found for rightist.
right·ism also Right·ism
n.
The ideology of the political right.
Belief in or support of the tenets of the political right.

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rightist

adj : believing in or supporting tenets of the political right [syn: right-wing] n : a member of a right wing political party [syn: right-winger]
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Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. -Gen Omar N. Bradley