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Hondo
LCDR
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA
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 Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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The file in the previous post shows the current USC. 10 USC 1162 and 10 USC 1163 were repealed in 1994.
Beldar blog has the text of 10 USC 1162 and 1163 effective in 1977. See http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/swiftvets/
Beldar seems to be a fair lawyer with conservative leanings.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill |
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Hondo wrote: | greasepaint, sevry:
Apples and oranges. The 6 year figure refers to the total service committment (Active PLUS Reserve) that Kerry signed up for in 1966.
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And that's literally how it reads on the DD214N. Maybe 4 years active, 2 ready reserve. That's your six.
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At the time, I believe the norms were 3yrs active/3yrs reserve and 4yrs active/2yrs reserve. It's entirely possible his job as an Admiral's aide required an extension of his active duty time - which was subsequently waived.
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It hadn't yet been six years. It was short of that.
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The Washington Post is a pretty damn conservative newspaper.
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You must be thinking of the Washington Times. The Washbag Post is one of the principal mouthpieces of the leftist establishment in this country.
And I thank those for pointing out where the original statutes could be found. Thank you, very much. Actually, Beldar had the original. And it didn't read all that differently than the substitute provisions.
Whether his involvement with VVAW or Ted Kennedy was cause for a dishonorable discharge, is difficult to say. I've suspected, as did Beldar at the very end, that this board really had little to do with 1163. 1163 may have been cited because it mentioned - a board. This is one that would be best answered simply by inquiring of those who served on the board. That's the homework for the 'bloggers'. Track them down. Call them on the phone. Even then, they may not remember Kerry. But they might be able to say if any concerned less than honorable discharges, and Carter's amnesty. |
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Hondo
LCDR
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:30 am Post subject: |
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sevry:
Thanks for the good catch - I "fornicated Fido" there (would say "scr*wed the pooch", but got to be politically correct these days). Yes, I did indeed mean the Washington TIMES. I've corrected my original post.
When I was speaking of norms, I meant the usual breakout (active/reserve) of the 6 year total service committment. Kerry did a bit short of 4 yrs active and was then transferred to the USNR. Had he resigned his commission at the end of his 6 year obligation in 1972, he would have gotten a discharge vice transfer to the Standby Reserve.
As best as I can determine, you are correct about 10 USC 1163. As I read it, it was cited because para (a) of 10 USC 1163 seems to have REQUIRED a board of officers for ANY involuntary discharge of a reserve officer with 3 or more years of service except for a few specified cases (court-martial conviction, resignation in lieu of court-martial, DFR due to AWOL, civilian confinement, transfer, or age).
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill |
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Hondo wrote: | sevry:
(active/reserve) of the 6 year total service committment. Kerry did a bit short of 4 yrs active and was then transferred to the USNR. Had he resigned his commission at the end of his 6 year obligation in 1972, he would have gotten a discharge vice transfer to the Standby Reserve.
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In fact, what you have is a guy who really saw action for four months. He literally spent a year back in Brooklyn.
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As best as I can determine, you are correct about 10 USC 1163. As I read it, it was cited because para (a) of 10 USC 1163 seems to have REQUIRED a board of officers for ANY involuntary discharge
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And it doesn't seem so different from the provisions that replaced it in 1994. I wrote in my 'blog'/journal, a few days ago, that it all seemed rather speculative. And Beldar suggested there might well be this innocuous explanation for the board. But it is interesting that Carter signed this amnesty, and then Kerry gets this discharge in 1978.
The people to ask, on this, would be those who served on the board and hope you get honest answers. |
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Gus
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:55 am Post subject: Records have NOT all been released....F-180 |
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"Authortative sources are lying. Ask this direct question: Has Kerry
signed Form F-180 to authorize the release of ALL records? He has not.
You will NOT get an answer to that particular question. There are 100+ pages
hidden which will not be released. Check the Judicial Watch website and
you will realize that the Navy is stone-walling this.... |
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Hondo
LCDR
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Gus:
I'd wager neither of us have seen Kerry's records (I know I haven't). Therefore, neither of us knows whether these "authoritative sources are lying". We can believe what we like - but they could be telling the absolute, unpleasant truth for all either of us KNOWS.
I would love to see PROOF that Kerry got something besides an honorable discharge and later got it upgraded. Unfortunately, there are still explanations that CANNOT BE RULED OUT which would allow Kerry to have received PRECISELY ONE discharge - the honorable one he got in 1978.
Until new documentary evidence comes to light, we can think what we like - but we won't KNOW.
And without more evidence, this won't get wide enough exposure to damage Kerry's chances a whit. It will just get ignored as another "smear tactic".
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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This contentious article has had it's day in this forum. Let's move on.
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