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LimaCharlie
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 386
Location: Oregon
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 Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Guess I should be running for President instead of setting here in my pajamas posting to this thread.
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Last edited by LimaCharlie on Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Aristotle The Hun
PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Naples FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Several PMs but still no answer. So lets try it this way.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Training_School_Record.pdf
This shows Kerry’s GCT/ARI scores. Unfortunately the document is named Officer’s Qualification Test. All I need is for somebody, hopefully several people, to tell me and the reporter that the scores on this document represent what we all (Navy) know they are.
Somehow the reporter thinks that the scores on this document are not the same thing as our familiar GCT scores common to officer and enlisted man alike.
I will pass along your validation to the reporter. By the way, this guy is a national reporter for a major press syndicate.
Sam
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Paul5388
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 36
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:56 am Post subject: |
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I could have sworn the qualification for officers was at 118, not 108.
Of course, that may have been for those going from enlisted ranks to OCS of some sort.
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Aristotle The Hun
PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Naples FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Paul5388 wrote: | I could have sworn the qualification for officers was at 118, not 108.
Of course, that may have been for those going from enlisted ranks to OCS of some sort. |
Exactly correct. Enlisted men were recruited to the officer programs if their GCT/ARI was high enough. OCS candidates did not need to have scores as high as those who were recruited from the enlisted ranks.
Kerry had a degree from Harvard. That made up for not being that bright in the eyes of the Navy.
sam
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Paul Woll
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 134
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:53 am Post subject: |
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President George W. Bush scored 566 verbal and 640 math in his SAT's, for a total of 1206. On the chart below, 1206 translates to 124 IQ in the first column (the more common 15 Standard Deviations in IQ). An SAT-IQ formula announced in 2004 by Case Western researchers also yields 124 IQ for a 1206 SAT score. See how Bush compares to other Presidents' IQ and social skills.
John Kerry, Bush's 2004 opponent, reportedly got a 1190 SAT score. 1190 translates to a 122 IQ for Kerry.
See chart.
http://www.sq.4mg.com/IQ-SATchart.htm |
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LimaCharlie
PO2
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 386
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul5388 wrote: | I could have sworn the qualification for officers was at 118, not 108.
Of course, that may have been for those going from enlisted ranks to OCS of some sort. |
It has varied over the years. In my 1963/1964 timeframe, it was 110 for OCS and 120 for ET-A school.
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I was going to become an anarchist, but they had too many rules. |
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Paul5388
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 36
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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LimaCharley,
That must be the case. My time frame for boot camp and GCT's was 1961.
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"FLUSH THE JOHNS"
Bumper sticker seen at Shreveport VAMC
www.usslittlerock.com |
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LimaCharlie
PO2
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 386
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Even if someone proves that John Faux Kerry is the smarter of the two candidates, it is too late. Oregon is a one hundred percent vote by mail state. My wife and I received our ballots in the mail last night and voted this morning. I don’t trust them being handled in the mail so I will be delivering two votes for George W. Bush to the county elections office when they open tomorrow morning.
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I was going to become an anarchist, but they had too many rules. |
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William
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 37
Location: Northcoast CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Aristotle wrote:
How do we all "know" these are GCT/ARI scores?
Does anyone know what the entry "7" under the "FORM" column might mean?
"58" is entered under "RAW SCORE"
"50" is entered under "STAND. SCORE"
How do we know that this doesn't mean Kerry's GCT was 50!
I have very, very DIM recollections of raw scores (number of questions answered correctly) being converted into standard scores and percentiles in four or five different test sections, mechanical, spacial relations, clerical, mathematics, and ?. I thought they called this the "basic battery" when I took it after enlisting in the USNR in 1962. After taking these tests, I was offered a "fleet appointment" to the Naval Academy or any school I wanted, so I guess I did O.K. Was this the same thing as the GCT?
Kerrys Training School Record has a row labeled "OFFICER'S BASIC BATTERY" right under the "OFFICER QUALIFICATION TEST" row, with rows for entering Verbal, Mechanical, Mathmatical, and Spacial scores. But they are blank. This is where I would expect to see GCT or basic battery scores entered. But again, my memory is very dim on all of this.
If Kerry's GCT was actually 50 - ouch! That would be worth another Purple Heart wouldn't it? |
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Aristotle The Hun
PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Naples FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| William wrote: | Aristotle wrote:
How do we all "know" these are GCT/ARI scores?
Does anyone know what the entry "7" under the "FORM" column might mean?
"58" is entered under "RAW SCORE"
"50" is entered under "STAND. SCORE"
How do we know that this doesn't mean Kerry's GCT was 50!
I have very, very DIM recollections of raw scores (number of questions answered correctly) being converted into standard scores and percentiles in four or five different test sections, mechanical, spacial relations, clerical, mathematics, and ?. I thought they called this the "basic battery" when I took it after enlisting in the USNR in 1962. After taking these tests, I was offered a "fleet appointment" to the Naval Academy or any school I wanted, so I guess I did O.K. Was this the same thing as the GCT?
Kerrys Training School Record has a row labeled "OFFICER'S BASIC BATTERY" right under the "OFFICER QUALIFICATION TEST" row, with rows for entering Verbal, Mechanical, Mathmatical, and Spacial scores. But they are blank. This is where I would expect to see GCT or basic battery scores entered. But again, my memory is very dim on all of this.
If Kerry's GCT was actually 50 - ouch! That would be worth another Purple Heart wouldn't it? |
Talk about asking the right question at the right time!
(begin)
The document that arrived today was from 1961: "Development of the Officer Qualification Test, Forms 7 and 8," created by the Bureau of Naval Personnel, and written by Smith, Guttman, Proctor, and Sharp, who were Navy psychometricians. It's not online. I paid the government $42 to have it rushed to me.
My best interpretation is that in the left hand column of http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Training_School_Record.pdf, the column heading reads "Test" and under it is typed "Officer Qualification Test". In the next column, the heading appears to read "Form" and under it is typed 7. So, my assumption is that what I got today is the report on the creation of the OQT, Form 7 taken by Kerry in 1966.
The next column heading looks like "Raw Score" and typed under it is "58."
The next column heading is fairly illegible, but I think it's "Stndrd. Score" or something like that. Or, it could be something like "Pctnile. Score" too. Under it is type "50".
The OQT Form 7 was standardized in 1961 on "Approximately 1600 applicants to OCS". Their mean raw score was 57.11, which meant that Kerry scored within a rounding error of the mean, which would go along with the "50" referring to his Navy Standard Score or percentile.
So, Kerry was dead average among applicants to Officer Candidate School. Of course, this is a fairly elite bunch, since they were supposed to either have an bachelor's degree or be on track for a four year college degree. I don't know for sure what these officer applicants average IQ was, but 115 to 120 is probably in the ballpark. I've got questions out to several experts to give me a better estimate.
The Naval OQT might be a little unfair to Kerry if his strong suit is verbal, because it was weighted more toward math and mechanics. The test was revised in 1961 to make a higher proportion of the questions on arithmetic since math skill that had been shown to have a better predictive value for how well a young man would do in Officer Candidate School than the other two areas. In contrast, being President might be more weighted toward verbal, especially in, say, delicate negotiations with foreign countries or writing stump speeches, although certainly math helps in areas like understanding the budget.
The OQT consisted of 50 Arithmetic Reasoning questions, 30 Mechanical Comprehension questions, and 35 Verbal Analogies. Since he was a political science major at Yale, it's likely he's better with words than numbers, so he might have done a little better on a more balanced IQ test.
A raw score of 58 was equivalent to a "Navy Standard Score" of 51, according to my document. Indeed, that might be what the column with the illegible heading is saying. They might have rounded Navy Standard Scores to the nearest factor of 5, like they did with Bush's percentile scores on the AFOQT. My impression is that the Navy Standard Score is calculated with a mean of 50 and a standard deviation of 10, so that a 60 would be the 84th percentile and a 70 would be around the 98th percentile. This is a little bit off from the Mensa requirement of a 68 for membership, but it's pretty close.
Anyway, whether it's a percentile or a Navy Standard Score doesn't matter in Kerry's case because his raw score was right at the mean, and both the percentile or the Navy Standard Score for being at the mean for your group is 50, which is what he got.
How can we account for the fact that we are looking at two different tests yet come out to the same ballpark for IQ? My guess is that a Navy Standard Score of 58 on the GCT would be pretty close to a raw score of 58 on the Officer Qualification Test because that raw score is about equivalent to a Navy Standard Score of 50. If officer candidates score 0.8 standard deviations higher than enlisted men (putting officer candidates at around the 79th percentile among enlisted men), then Kerry would have had a Navy Standard Score of 58 on the enlisted man's test. This is all speculation, but it makes me feel pretty confident that we're in the right ballpark.
(end)
Conclusions:
Kerry Iq - 115 to 118
Bush IQ - 125 to 128
Kerry - Bright Normal
Bush - Superior
No matter how one looks at it - Bush is smarter than Kerry.
IQ DESCRIPTION PERCENT OF ADULTS
Above130 Very superior 2.2
120-129 Superior 6.7
110-119 Bright normal 16.1
90-109 Average 50.0
80-89 Dull normal 16.1
70-79 Borderline 6.7
Below 70 Defective 2.2
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Aristotle The Hun
PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Naples FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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I just read the rough draft of Steve Sailer's article on Bush vs Kerry IQ. It is long, scientific and technical but thorughly researched and unarguable in its conclusion.
Bush – 125 to 128 IQ – Superior range
Kerry – 115 to 118 – Bright normal range.
It will be released late this evening.
I am out of the office to deliver a seminar and will not return until after 5PM EST.
Sam
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Tacan70UDN
PO2
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Sam - Kudos for a job well done!  Hope this gets some legs in the media. Another nail in the coffin of JK's self-image!!  |
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Hondo
LCDR
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Well done, Sam.
If/when feasible, could you post a link to the article after its release?
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Aristotle The Hun
PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Naples FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:52 am Post subject: |
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My plan is to make this one of my last post on this issue in the Vets Only forum. The project was dreamed up by yours truly and given birth by my fellow vets and other contributors. Thanks for everybody’s help.
I expect to start a new topic on the main forum entitled Kerry’s ‘I’m smarter’ myth debunked!
A brief background and history:
When I signed onto the SwiftVets forum back in August I had no idea it would lead to validating a hunch I have had for a long time. I have seen many a “city-slicker” underestimate the intelligence of a “good old boy”. I had seen many gifted children called stupid because of learning disabilities. Let’s just say I am sensitized to the issue of calling people stupid because of personal habits or eccentricities.
I had already guessed that Kerry was the intellectual light weight in this presidential election.
I already knew “W” had an IQ above 120 which would put him in the “Superior” category for IQ scoring. In itself this is news for most people, but it is well documented from credible sources.
Not being satisfied with merely revealing Bush’s IQ, I wanted to prove that Kerry had no justification for saying he would fight a smarter war etc. etc. The Kerry campaign knew that there was a widespread perception that “W” was stupid. They began slipping references to “smart” into Kerry’s speeches. I got more frustrated.
I had hoped to prove that “W” could join Mensa and Kerry could not. As it turned out neither candidate could be accepted into membership in Mensa
The bottle neck was I didn’t know Kerry’s IQ and had no way to research it. Then our beloved Nx3 sent me a link to Kerry’s Officer Qualifications Test. Several people on this forum puzzled over this test as it seemed outside the experience of those who looked at it. Made us go hmmm.
I mistakenly interpreted the scores as being the familiar (Navy) GCT/ARI scores. What I found out is that the Officer’s Qualification Test is not the same thing as GCT/ARI. Fortunately the Officer Qualification Test will yield an IQ score just as the GCT/ARI scores are keyed to IQ. For example a GCT of 68 equals an IQ of 130 or the 98th percentile.
Oddly the score I derived from my research from the CGT premise yielded the same IQ score as the Officer Qualification Test. Giving a range of 115 to 118 IQ for Kerry.
Bush 125 to 128 IQ Mystery solved!
A word about the reporter who is writing the article. http://www.isteve.com/ Steve is no Bush fan but he as an authentic conservative. He has a picture of himself cozyed up to Maggie Thatcher on his web site. When it comes to articles on IQ he is a science writer of the first degree.
He has done hard work on this story. It is so solidly grounded that it will not be able to be discredited. That is what has taken so long. Steve and I have no guarantees that it will be picked up by MSM but Steve is a national reporter for UPI and he is widely respected. However the story will be posted on the net yet tonight, God willing.
Steve’s article is long, technical and scientific. I will be telling my own story about the Mensa, Gifted Child aspects and providing a link to Steve’s story when I post the new topic on the main forum. Then we begin sending emails everywhere.
Got some writing to do. Back later. In the mean time I am eager for feedback and suggestions.
Wait until Barbara Streisand and Jane Fonda find out they invested in the less intelligent candidate. No that was too PC. Compared to Bush, Kerry is stupid. There, I said it.
Sam
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Aristotle The Hun
PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Naples FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Note from reporters web page:
Finally! My major scoop coming up. At last, I feel confident enough in the facts to publish my story on John F. Kerry's IQ and how it compares to George W. Bush's IQ. The tentative plan is to publish it in VDARE.com late Thursday evening.
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