SwiftVets.com

[Nate]

Here are some recent posts on this. Does anyone have any followup on it or ideas?

------------------------------------------------------------

Anybody here familiar with the Special Discharge Review Program initiated in 1977 under Jiminy Carter ? The program was created because Carter pardoned all the draft dodgers in order to please everyone. Then he had to deal with those that said "Hey, wait a minute, what about the people who entered the military and then decided to bug out?" So, Carter issued a directive instructing the military to conduct a special review of less than honorable discharges. And, yes, the program could account for a 1978 discharge date. (But what about all those who served honorably? Congress denied VA benefits to many of those that had upgraded discharges via the SDRP.)

Already done the homework

The SDRP proceedings should result in the publication of a Decisional Document that is publicly accessible here:

Armed Forces Reading Room
1941 Jefferson-David Highway
Crystal Mall #4, Second Floor
Arlington, VA 22202-4508

The DD does not contain the name of the individual, but it should include information regarding date of enlistment, rank, medals, etc.

The records are on microfiche with a primary index using the Docket Number - which you would not know. There are secondary indexes on other microfiches that would, hopefully, make it possible to narrow down the choice of records. You should be prepared with as much 'known' information as possible. The contact person is Ms. Wanda Cooper.



Can this bee researched in time?



From the DOD Forms Inventory, looks like the relevant forms would be:

DD2067: CASE REPORT AND DIRECTIVE - DISCHARGE REVIEW BOARD STATEMENT OF FINDINGS, CONCLUSIONS & REASONS (Form date: APR 1977

DD2070: DISCHARGE REVIEW PROGRAM (SPECIAL) CASE DATA SHEET, DOD (Form date: JUL 1977)

Bet there's one there on Kerry!!!!! (but as suggested, guess can only trace via Rank, medals, date of birth, dates of service, etc.)
_________________
U.S. Navy Vet from 50's (Destroyers)
_________________
U.S. Navy Vet from 50's (Destroyers)

[searly]

I managed to get through to a Kerry campaign conference call today. I asked Joe Lockhart about the NY Sun editorial questioning the nature of Kerry's Honorable Discharge and about the gap in Kerry's records as posted online. I ended by asking whether Kerry would sign a form SF-180 prior to the election in order to clarify the matter. I don't have a transcript, but Lockhart said in essence that the Kerry campaign has released everything it intends on releasing and at least they didn't have to get sued before releasing information.

Please, somebody get your hands on some previously unreleased evidence that will force the Kerry camp's hand. I hope someone can take you up on your offer to do this research. Time is of the essence.

[rmcclure]

The trick is for someone, well placed, to simply ask Kerry, "Mr. Kerry, have you ever asked that your discharge be upgraded?". It's a very simple question and would be a lot tougher to dodge that the old "Why haven't you released your Military Records?.....I have".

Someone simply has to do this. We can't have the next Commander in Chief be someone who couldn't even get an honorable Discharge from his own time in the Service. I would rather have someone in charge who was never in than to have someone as CIC who has or was given a less than honorable discharge....mac

[Spiess]

I am on an Email campaign to put pressure onthe Kerry Campaign about his unreleased Records, This is a perfect Opportunity so far I have writen Brit Hume, Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Fox and Friends, Tim Russert, with this Information along with the Following link.

http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2004/10/was_kerrys_orig.html


I urge Everyone to get involved, Lets see if we can get this in the news!!!!

[JB Stone]

John Kerry, Setting America Adrift

Listen to John Kerry at any one moment and you will never sense the whole. Let him talk about himself long enough and he will indict himself every time.

John Kerry signed a six-year contract to enlist in the Naval Reserve [not the USN] as an OCS Candidate on 2/18/66. However, he did so only after his request for a deferral to study in Paris for an additional year was refused. His Reserve Unit was called up. By his own admission, "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing." He requested an early discharge from his Admiral on the grounds of “conscientious objection” to the ongoing conflict. You might say, “John Kerry voted against the military before he voted for it, and then voted against it.” Often criticized for flip-flopping, it’s his consistency and alliances I find most chilling.

A 2/18/70 Harvard Crimson article describes his first bid for the U.S. Congress, campaigning while he was still on Active Duty in the Navy. In “John Kerry: A Navy Dove Runs for Congress”, he states, "I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations." A political career was born. Debating George Bush thirty-four years later he said, “you have to do it in a way that passes … the global test … and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.”

Kerry was soundly rejected in the Democratic Primary. In June, 1970, still in the Navy Reserve, he had joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and was making headlines by year’s end. From 1/31 - 2/2/71 Kerry collected “evidence of…"war crimes … committed or witnessed"” at the VVAW’s Winter Soldier Investigation, which he later used in his testimony before the Senate. Many of the “witnesses” he quoted had never actually been in Vietnam or in combat. So, while he may have repeated accurately what he heard to the Senate in April, it was not entirely truthful.

On 4/18/71, he stated to “Meet the Press”, “There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions…” Five days later, he threw some of his ribbons, not his medals, over a fence in D.C.

In July of 1971, Kerry appeared on the “Dick Cavett Show”, accusing American Servicemen of War Crimes. Kerry admitted that he'd never actually seen some of the atrocities he testified about, saying, "I personally didn't see personal atrocities in the sense I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that. However, I did take part in free-fire zones, I did take part in harassment and interdiction fire, I did take part in search-and-destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground…And all of these acts… are contrary to the Hague and Geneva conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the application of the Nuremberg Principles, is in fact guilty."

On 2/19/04, he told CNN, "No, I was accusing American leaders…it's the leaders who are responsible, not the soldiers. I never said that." John Kerry now claims to be an American leader. Was he an “American Leader” when he ordered those who served under him to commit what he himself considers to be War Crimes?

John Kerry refuses to release any of his Military Records from 1/3/70 – 7/1/72, during which time he was a Ready Reserve officer and also at the height of his VVAW activities and meeting with the North Vietnamese in Paris. Under oath during the question and answer period following his televised testimony before the U.S. Senate, Kerry said: “I have been to Paris. I have talked to … the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government [both Communist Regimes] and… if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned.”

By negotiating for a date certain for our withdrawal while still an Officer in the Naval Reserve, John Kerry created a huge Constitutional dilemma for himself. Title 10, Section 904 of the United States Code [UCMJ] provides: “Any person who… without proper authority, knowingly… communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly, shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.” Given Title 10, Section 904 and Title 18, Section 953, intercourse with the enemy and intercourse with a foreign government with intent to “defeat the measures of” the United States constitute federal crimes. He collaborated with enemy combatants during the war, "adhering to them and giving them aid." The evidence for this is in his own words, covered by another law, The Constitution of the United States, Article III, Section 3.

Kerry’s official Web site features an official Navy document describing his "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves.” This document is dated 2/16/78, a full six years after his original enlistment contract expired. It describes his discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers,” citing "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163,” which refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. No ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy requires a review by a board of officers. The "board of officers" is even more noteworthy because it came about "by direction of the President,” Jimmy Carter. No normal honorable discharge requires the direction of the president.

Less than an hour after his Inauguration, Mr. Carter signed Executive Order 4483 empowering a general amnesty for draft dodgers and other war protesters. It was expanded in March 1977 to include other offenders who may have had general, bad conduct, dishonorable discharges, and any other discharge or sentence with negative effect on military records. In those cases the directive outlined a procedure for appeal on a case by case basis before a board of officers. A satisfactory appeal would result in an improvement of discharge status or an honorable discharge.

Senator Kerry has repeatedly refused to sign Standard Form 180, allowing the release of his complete military records. The Naval Personnel Office confirms that they are still withholding some 100 pages of files.

~~~~~

Now, mind you, I was IN the VVAW when Kerry was at the helm.

I went to exactly ONE protest at the University of Denver and was photographed there.

A short time later, I fled the organization when I discovered they were SERIOUSLY discussing assassinating U.S. Political Figures to get "their point across"....!!!




I had naively joined the organization believing they had any validity whatsoever due to what I had learned when participating in REAL War Crimes in Project 112/SHAD in the Navy.

www1.va.gov/SHAD

WWW.ProjectSHAD.us

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14556&sid=a3b85f25e5d212cef8df32413c786c11

~~~~~~

Thank GOD for the Swifities' coming forward.

[ProudDaughterofVet]

Thank God for this thread..now at least I am beginning to understand the complexity of this ...I am going to email Major Garrett from Fox news..he needs to know..this guy will dig it up..he is fair and balanced and truthfully, would love to stick it to CNN..if ..IF the AP can sue for the Presidents Guard Records..then why can't Fox sue for Kerry's..seems that too much is missing and monkey business is going on..and if a former President, such as Carter or Clinton in anyway were involved..then I need to know..the public needs to know..NOW, before it is too late..

PD
_________________
"We will not tire, We will not falter, We will not fail."
-President George W. Bush

www.timetotakeastand.blogspot.com

[ProudDaughterofVet]

http://www.nysun.com/article/3107

This article was just written by the NY Sun October 13, 2004..this could be interesting..and do not think that the general MSM is not on it..I am going to email this article to all the investigating reporters I can..and also to Senator Warner..seems he can not confirm nor deny..as he was YES the Secretary of the Navy at the time..hmmmmmmmm...

Friends..it is time to email, saddle up..stop preaching to the choir and create our own October Surprise..I will not sit by and watch this man get away with this, even if no one hears me, I am shouting it from the rooftops..

PD
_________________
"We will not tire, We will not falter, We will not fail."
-President George W. Bush

www.timetotakeastand.blogspot.com

[Lord of The Rings]

Please remember that the following is only my opinion. It may be true or not. Please take it as such!

Ok Guys and Gals, (Some thoughts on the subject)

You have the basics for this information, well done!

Now you have two weeks to have the press bring it out, before JFK2's supporters foist another Jimmy C. on us.

This man has consistently used his "Vietnam Service" to boost his political efforts. It seems to me that someone high in the DNC decided to preen a political front runner way back in the 70's. Their first efforts failed dismally, because of this candidates lack of any real moral fibre. Personally, I smell Teddy K behind the whole thing.

To run for polical power in Massachusetts, you have to be a Kennedy or be real close to one. When JKF2 actually went to Vietnam for his 4 month tour, someone with a great deal of political power arranged for a plethora of medals to be awarded to him. (This would explain why his superiors were not involved, or actually turned his requests down) I assume that they also knew that 3 Purple Hearts would get him home immediately. Someone was manufacturing a war hero, to make him look like JFK and ultimately run him for Congress or The Senate.

They then decided to polish his record by having Jimmy C. do the dirty work, by "Presidential Directive," yet. This allowed JFK2 to have his discharge made honerable in 1978. (Have you noticed that this sounds just like Bill's episode at the end of his term, to assist and of course to be paid for helping his friends?)

Now, some 25 years later we have him foisted on us because the DNC realised that their front runner was not acceptable to anyone of the voting public, "I have a scream etc.!"

At this point the full might of the DNC was thrown behind JFK2 to make him appear the perfect candidate, when in reality he was merely a second choice.

If what you say is true, and it certainly seems to be, the DNC is hiding something that they know would blow him right out of the water. All their lies would be as nothing, if his original discharge/service wasn't honory.

You have only two weeks, but that is a long time in politics. Go for it and God's speed to you all.

Best of Luck,
_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.

[Geano]

Lord of the Rings: People are starting to catch on!

[Lord of The Rings]

Dear Geano

Your post gives me hope. There are others that think as I do!

Having read your link, and found it interesting, I have taken the liberty of passing the investigation of Beacon etc on to my contacts overseas. They have the ability to check on your theories in UK, Oz etc. Maybe even in China, who knows.

If I get any hits from them, I will report back to you with results. In the meantime keep up the good work,

Very Interesting, but Tempus Fugit.

Regards,
_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.

[Stevie]

gee guys, this has all been done over on Veterans for truth...

the NY Sun article is the one written from info given by NavyChief....

garrett and everyone was emailed the day the article came out.... several of us waited up all night (me) til the article showed up on the website....

a few more articles have trickled out but no msm..... sorry....

I personally emailed garrett and bor, hannity, brit etc....

nothing yet...tho NC says something should happen soon....we just don't know what.... check other forum... I'll go over and try to find the address..

here it is - 18 pages !
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12783
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

[Lord of The Rings]

Dear Geano, (Regardless of Stevie's post, as I promised here, I replied here. If you would prefer it on another post then please ask and I will comply)

As promised. Both replies refer to Oz and UK respectively:

Oz:

"Michael you've presumably checked out their site at
http://www.beaconfs.com/principals/principals.htm in which I note they
offer financial services and are connected to Griffith Securities.(The
photos of the two mentioned in yours, shows them to be sensitive and
trustworthy?)

A check with local contacts indicate a Beacon Investment Services operating out of Sydney tied up with Tower Life, FAI and Bridges Finance, the latter being described as "chequered" and FAI having been investigated by the Federal Police and CIC."

(I have requested the reason for the Oz investigation and will forward if received.)

UK:

"Daniel Barbiero was JFK2's room-mate at St Paul's & Yale, but then you
probably knew that."

(Replied that this was true, but anything else to hand? No reply so far)

Best Wishes,
_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.

[Lord of The Rings]

Dear Stevie,

Appreciate your advice, however most of us do not have sufficient time to check all the various duplicate entries. Been there now, and read all of the sidelines etc. You'll excuse me, I am sure, if I thought that this was the most appropriate one to use.

I have to point out that the forum post you refer to doesn't seem to have brought the matter to any finality, yet. So it would appear to me that no harm is done, particularly with such short notice, if others give the matter a try?

If we succeed in any real way, then our posts can easily be combined with any others. If the Powers That Be, feel that this should be done now, then so be it and move this over, please.

Best Wishes,
_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Unfortunately, there's no way to combine topics that duplicate material.

Don't take it personally, though - some of the members are just aware of what a headache it is for us to keep the duplicates under control.

As you say, no harm done - and really, this topic approaches the subject from a different angle, so it's not one I'd close as a duplicate, anyway.

If we had a reliable search engine in phpBB, that could save a lot of duplicates, but we don't, so we just do the best we can to keep them funneled to previous discussions and to post reminders.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[Misty]