SwiftVets.com

[Lord of The Rings]

Perhaps none of you saw/heard the statement made by JFK2 himself, and then repeated three days later by a member of the DNC on TV.

This took place about a month ago, and I have seen nothing put up in reply. I asked the owners of this site to comment via email, but received no reply.

JFK2 made the comment that he had actually served one complete tour of duty in Vietnam, and then returned for his 4 months (one in training) with The Swift Boats. This was then reinforced by the DNC three days later on national TV. No one bothered to query if these statements were actually correct.

Although I have searched high and low, I could find no trace of any information confirming or denying these statements. One reason of course is that he never signed a form 180 and his "record" was vetted by the DNC, before they released their censured version.

My question then, is did he serve two tours, the last aborted by his medal grab, or is the real truth that he merely served 4 months, unlike others who completed their full year, and in some cases more.

Someone somewhere must have the real truth. Or was this just kite flying by he and the DNC, to see if they would get any arguments to their lies?

Sincerely,
_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Apparently Kerry counts his one year on the USS Gridley (of which approx. 5 weeks were spent in support of the 7th Fleet, and one day in port at Danang) as a "tour in Vietnam" and his four months with the Swifts as his second "tour in Vietnam."


Here are some previous discussions on the "two tours" question:
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7395
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5176
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=53
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[Lord of The Rings]

Dear Navy_Navy_Navy

Thanks for your help in clearing up this anomally. It would therefore appear that JFK2 is taking 7 months from his cruiseship experience, and adding 4 months in Swift Boats (11 months) then stretching that into two tours in Vietnam.

Apparently as I summized, a kite flying exercise, just to see if it wasn't shot down immediately. I note that the "mainstream" press, as usual, rushed to correct this error!

Best Wishes,

_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.

[BearNTrish]

Lord of The Rings ... Kerry is counting his west pac cruise as 1 tour of duty in VN and his SB duty as tour of duty #2. Not adding 7 & 4 and stretching.

Bear ... of Bear N Trish

[Lord of The Rings]

Dear Bear, (Of BearNTrish)

and so, you agree with this?

Seems to me to be as illegal as Creative Bookkeeping. Neither one of these "tours" add up to one normal 12 month one. Or am I wrong and missing something?

Always interested to read other peoples views on this subject.

Regards,
_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.

[BearNTrish]

What I was pointing out IS what Kerry is counting, and that he isn't adding and stretching. NAVY was also pointing this out to you. Maybe a lil more info would be helpful here - Cruise(Navy)/Tour(Army etc) = deployment; assignment. I was in the Navy and was on 1 Med Cruise. The Navys' normal Cruises around this time where in the 6 mth range. Those IN Country in VN were on a 12mth Tour of Duty. (my brother spent 2 tours in VN which amounted to about 24mths). Some of the duty of the USS Gridley's WesPac (sp) Cruise was considered "in" VN, so Kerry is counting this as "Tour" #1. Kerry is counting his duty with the SB's as "Tour" #2.
Should Kerry be calling a "Cruise" a "Tour of duty"? Should he be calling his 4mths on SB's before being released "A tour of duty"? A 6mth cruise is not a 12mth tour of duty but it is a deployment/assignment.

Bear ... of Bear N Trish
A Viet Nam ERA Disabled Vet

[Jerald L. Parsoneault]

Simply put:

A tour of duty in Vietnam is 12 months in country.

A destroyer operating in and around Vietnam is a Westpac cruise.

So in my book Kerry did not even have one tour, let alone two.

I think I know what I am talking about here because I did a tour and a cruise.

Nalt

PS Regarding the tour, another way to know you completed your tour is because on arrival you were given a a picture of a naked woman that was divided into 365 sections. You colored in one segment every day. I will not go into the location on the picture of the last three segments. Let's just say Kerry never got below the shoulders.

[Anker-Klanker]

[Note: see Hondo's comment below. I probably am guilty of faulty memory. The influx and outflux described below was more probably induced by combat pay rules. -- Anker-Klanker]

For the record, it's more shameful than you might think. In those days (and I suspect it hasn't changed), there was a so-called Vietnam war zone, and certain periods (specifically month1/day1/year to month2/day2/year) were designated periods for earning the Vietnam Service Medal.

I distinctly recall being close aboard, escorting the carriers when on the last day of one of those periods everyone from command staff in COMNAVFOR JAPAN would fly in and land on the carrier, and then fly out the next day (new period). Thus in a 2-day visit, they would be credited for duty in two combat periods. It was almost like a traffic jam watching those ferry flights going in and out.

I have absolutely no doubt that the other services did exactly the same thing in their own way.

These combat periods are what sKerry is calling a "tour" - meaning he was credited with being in the war zone in two different periods.

Don't tell me everybody's forgotten this?

[Hondo]

Anker-Klanker:


Don't think this was being done for campaign participation credit. Campaign dates are usually determined well after the fact and generally don't align on any anticipatable dates.

Criteria for the VSM was the same as other campaign medals: perm party to an assigned/assigned to a unit or ship in the combat zone for 1 or more days, or a specified number of days TDY to the zone in support of operations (usually 30 consecutive or 60 nonconsecutive). At 2 days per trip, it would have taken a hell of a long time to qualify for the VSM.

The trips you mention were probably on the last day of the month and returned on the following day (1st of the month). If I understand correctly, combat zone pay rules are that if any part of a month is spent in a combat zone, the entire month's pay is tax-free (or up to a specified limit is tax-free for officers). My guess is that a bunch of folks were doing this to milk the tax-free cow.

I've heard of the same going on today with folks going TDY to Iraq and arranging it to arrive just before the end of one month and returning a few days later.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[Lord of The Rings]

Dear Bear, Anker-Klanker and Jerald,

Your info is much appreciated, and helps one who only met guys who served in Vietnam. I was a senior officer in the BSAP (Rhodesian Police Force) I served for some 24 years and retired, before returning to The States. During that period I was privileged to come to know some guys who served in VN, and then came to assist us in our terrorist war. They called themselves the "Crippled Eagles" and served honorably in The Regular Rhodesian Armed Forces, not as mercenaries.

Given the above, I cannot see JFK2 as one of the good guys! (Just part of the problem!)

All of them, and I count them as friends, felt that they got screwed over by the administration that ran the war from the US. That was their reason for continuing to fight communism with us. One of my friends in that group, (Doug Hubbard) lost his hand training our Support Unit, finally ending up in Oz. His email address no longer answers back.

Bear, you show you are in Texas, how far away from Lubbock?

Best Wishes to you all.
_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.

[Anker-Klanker]

Hondo, you might be right - it was a long time ago for me; I was young at the time, and didn't really understand all that was going on.

I also remember when I was on a DLG working off Danang, having CAP control responsibility, that there was an unusual number of inbound and outbound Air Force transport flights going through our sector on those same days.

[Hondo]

Anker-Klanker:


Hell, I'm not young any more and I STILL don't understand all that's going on.

However, I do understand that Kerry's full of it.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[BearNTrish]

Lord .... Yes, in Tx, in a small hole called Caddo Mills, more NE of Dallas than Anker-Klanker. AK, my wife works in Richardson.

[Lord of The Rings]

Dear Bear, (and Trish)

Ah! Caddo Mills on 66 and last stop before Greenville, where Lubbock's intended Interstate 30 was highjacked down to Dallas, and the real reason that IH30 doesn't go any further than Big D.

In my travels I have been through Greenville on 380/IH30 travelling East, but never dropped down on 66. Maybe one day, (although I don't travel much anymore) I'll do just that, and say Hi.

What on earth did you do to deserve to end up in Caddo Mills? Not really the town of my dreams, but Lubbock wasn't either until I settled there. Now I find that it's a great place to live and well away from The Dallas/Ft Worth lights.

Best of Luck, Look after yourselves,
_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.

[Lord of The Rings]

Dear Hondo,

I'm afraid that one doesn't have to be young to realise that JFK2 is not only full of it, but if he has his way intends to make sure we're covered in it too!

Love your "It takes two johns............" suits them completely.

Regards,

_________________
Lord of The Rings
aka Michael Werner,
Lubbock, Texas.