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What people are afraid to say: Civil War (long)
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Rurik
PO3


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 251
Location: Daschle-cleansed Free South Dakota

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

debewley wrote:
Rurik,
I often tour the forums of the various leftist organizations. I can't tell you how disgusted I am at the dialouge I find there.

But we should be better than that. We represent what is best about this country and to the extent that we sink to their level of communication we harm only ourselves and reinforce those who already hold a negative opinion of us.


"be better than that" Question In practice that means non-resistance to evil. It means submitting and sacrificing "what is best about this country" for a bit of moral preening. When our parents fought the Nazis and Japanese, they recognized that being "better than that" was a formula for defeat. Likewise throughout the cold war years we supported unsavory people and did some unsavory things in the shadows. We won when President Reagan abandoned peaceful containment for rollback.

By no means would I condone crazies running off to the forest if Kerry were to win an honest victory. But if and when his people either try to sieze power, or to begin their campaign of terror in the wake of a defeat, then we - both the citizens and government - must resist and make an example. For nearly half a century the hard left in this country has been following a no-fault strategy in which they are never held accountable. The Right has been playing "catch and release".
And I am firmly convinced that the best way to avoid accidents and misunderstandings is to post a clear warning early on.
And if believing that finishing off an attacker sohe cannot come back and try yet again, somehow makes me "worse than that" - Xin loi!
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Frank B
Ensign


Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Montana

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The divisiveness in this country is more than just political and it has been growing and festering for years. For too long the majority in this country has been forced to accept the will of the few, a fact we have all come to see through actions of the ACLU, liberal judges, lawyers, teachers, professors and corrupt polititicians and corporate CEO's. There has always been differences among our people but what we are witnessing today is unprecedented in its volatility. We see the majority will being overturned in courts, we see our traditional values being contested by liberal lawyers through a legal system that has become a mockery of justice. We watch liberal politicians push hand out programs to gain political advantage during a time of war. We see the liberal media and socialists trying to crowbar a traitor into the White House.

Are we supposed to idly sit by while all this takes place? As long as I'm able to breathe, walk or crawl, I will do ANYTHING necessary to prevent my being subjugated to a mindset that is totally alien to what I and my brothers have fought for during our combined 65 years of military service: freedom in a majority represented society, with due consideration for the less fortunate.

Like so many of you here and at the other anti-Kerry websites, my political activism in the past was confined to the voting booth. Not any more....too much is at stake now and for the foreseeable future. Until such time when this country is returned to the majority citizenry and its traditions, we must join and keep ourselves armed for bear, both literally and figuratively. We must not go quietly like those many Jews who were seen running to lime-filled pits to be murdered by the Nazis. We must not weep and plead for our lives in front of cameras before being beheaded. We must not accept this insidious threat to a way of life so dear to us all. I will join all of you, if it comes to it, to fight tooth and nail, biting and scratching before they put me down for good. I owe at least that much to my brothers and all whose names are on the black wall an on all those white crosses and stars of David at Normandy and elsewhere.

"No more yielding. No more giving up what's mine. No more oppression."
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SangRun Hunter
PO1


Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 462
Location: Zinzinnati

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless Kerry wins by an astouding margn I will not accept his rule.

There is no way! With all the stories there is no way I could accept it at all. There is just too much going on and too many are conspiring against Bush.

The majority of the right has the arms and the knowledge, something that the left needs to think about. They do not have the will of the majority on their side from what has been polled and they don't have the majority of military on their side. They don't have the will of the 76% of the country that believes in faith.
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knightowl77
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Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:40 pm    Post subject: Frank B wrote; Reply with quote

Quote:
Are we supposed to idly sit by while all this takes place? As long as I'm able to breathe, walk or crawl, I will do ANYTHING necessary to prevent my being subjugated to a mindset that is totally alien to what I and my brothers have fought for during our combined 65 years of military service: freedom in a majority represented society, with due consideration for the less fortunate.

Like so many of you here and at the other anti-Kerry websites, my political activism in the past was confined to the voting booth. Not any more....too much is at stake now and for the foreseeable future. Until such time when this country is returned to the majority citizenry and its traditions, we must join and keep ourselves armed for bear, both literally and figuratively.


We must be vigilant! We must be at the polling places whenever possible. We must report immediately any attempts by Kerry folks to intimidate people from voting. The RNC can't do it because they will be portrayed as trying to suppress the minority vote. Swiftees and vets need to be out there, standing watch one more time for our country.
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Hammer2
PO2


Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin Niemöller

"First they came for the Jews. I was silent. I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists. I was silent. I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists. I was silent. I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me. There was no one left to speak for me."

On resistance to Nazis, recalled on his death 6 Mar 84
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jimlarsen
Seaman


Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 197
Location: St. Petersburg, FL

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can think of several scenarios where Kerry could claim victory and actually have a large following even though he lost. One of them is for the election to come down to a single state, and for Kerry to take it. However, the Supreme Court rules all the votes in that state invalid because of strong evidence of massive voter fraud, and gives Bush the win. Kerry could claim that Bush only won because the Supreme Court had been rigged by prior presidents who put consertives on the court. This could very well galvanize much of the populace into rioting and attempting to take over federal buildings.

Now, as I understand, we each have a right to protect ourselves, our families, our friends, and others from substantial harm, and we can take immediate action if there appears to be a significant threat that substantial harm will come to us or others in the immediate future. But, we need to do this within the constraints of the constitution and the constisutions and laws of the various states. Within that framework we can deal the best we can with immediate threats, but protracted threats are supposed to be dealt with by legally constituted authorities and we must allow this to happen if we sustain the constitution and the laws. Otherwise we loose the very thing that we are fighting for.
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azpatriot
Senior Chief Petty Officer


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 593
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually if you read the constitution and the bill of rights you'll realize that “We the People” have the right to contest our people in office through use of force if need be. That’s the whole basis of the 2nd Amendment. A “well rounded militia” when taken in the true context of its original meaning, does not mean our police officers, it does not mean our national guard, it does not mean our military. It’s means each of us as citizens that can carry load and shoot a firearm, bow & arrow, axe, sword, spear or any other weapon. Here is a link to a little known indecent where this very issue was put into practice on Aug 2 1946.

The Battle of Athens
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is too horrible to contemplate. I shall pray feverishly and expect victory.
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Nomorelies
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what we are fighting: summed up quite nicely

Quote:
Why they'd like to see him assassinated

Charles Moore in the Daily Telegraph describes the theory by which British leftists rationalize their hatred of President Bush, a hatred that leads one major newspaper, the Guardian, to wish for his assassination. It goes like this:

A moral equivalence is set up, in which Osama bin Laden and Bush are presented as two sides of a fundamentalist coin. On Wednesday, a television programme tried to equate the Muslim Brotherhood, which advocates the violent destruction of all societies that do not conform to sharia law, with the American neo-conservative intellectuals who taught that people should revive their interest in Plato and the civilisation of the ancient Greeks.

This analysis, as I said, is a rationalization for Bush hatred, not the basis for it. As Moore notes:

It is the critics themselves who are suffering from pseudo-religious certainty and superstition. Isn't there something self-righteous, slightly crazed, about directing such overwhelming anger at the man whose job it is to pick up the pieces of September 11 on behalf of the free world? George W Bush as we see him today is a response to disorder, not its cause.

Yet, the rationalization reveals the true source of Bush-loathing -- hatred of the religious and core philosophical underpinnings of western civilization (represented in the leftist parable by the ancient Greeks). But if you hate these things, what remains worth defending about the west? The only thing I can think of is its hedonism. That's how the Islamofascists see it too. And they have figured out that, if that's all the west is fighting for, the west will lose.


religious and core philosophical underpinnings of western civilization
vs
HEDONISM


http://www.powerlineblog.com
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God and Country
PO3


Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 274
Location: God's country

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am ready and my guns are loaded to protect America from American terrorists.

I'll send them to see their 72 virgins, sorry I mean to HELL.

Time to rise up to protect our country.

God bless America.

Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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kimberly
PO2


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am somewhat naive of these things, but find myself becoming increasingly alarmed over media reports of violence at RNC headquarters, intimidation of Bush voters while waiting in line, and now Kerry's announcement that he will claim victory on the night of the 2nd, regardless of the results. Over the last few months I have 'debated' respectfully with young people in the 18 - 30 age group. I have been so personally attacked that I have had to leave the site. I refrained from discussing politics on another site I visit, but posted a message announcing that the 'controversial' file Stolen Honor would be aired, the date, and the channels. That's it. That's all I posted. This is what I received in return from someone I have never conversed with:

Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity..
Kim, when i saw you started this thread, I knew it was going to be some right-wing Kerry bashing bull-s*t along the lines of those stupidf*s, the Swift Boat liers for Bush..
Glad to see I was right..
Listen, the simple fact that that picture of him and Jane Fonda has been dismissed as a fake by the MAN WHO PHOTOSHOPPED IT and the dribble the narrator says then, makes me wanna throw up from disgust..
At least he went to war, instead of hiding in The National Guard...I have Bush's original military records on paper, let's stick to the facts... That Kerry was shot in the ass and Bush was drinking his ass off..
Swift Boat?.. It has also been proven that the men who made those claims may have been in Vietnam at that time, but didn't actually go on those missions with Kerry...And that the man sponsoring and paying for those ads is a personal friend of Bush...So how can you even consider them credible?
Vietnam was A F*ING MISTAKE.. IT WAS THE MOST POINTLESS LOSS OF LIFE SINCE WW1... but at least it wasn't started ILLEGALY!
So big up for Kerry saying it how it is. Exploiting a grieving mother? I wonder how much they paid that guy. He's doing this so that this thing will never happen again. And more mothers won't have to grieve over the loss of their sons. It has nothing to do with is political gains, but his ideological stand. That fighting a war without a purpose is WRONG!.. kinda like Iraq..
Please, don't bring that **** here... 90% of people posting here would rather send Bush out to Iraq in body armour and M-16, instead of Voting for him... Then he can see with his own eyes what kinda f*ed up s*t he started...
EVERYBODy, DON*T BOTHER WATCHING THIS MOVIE.. 5 SECONDS INTO THE EXCERPT, AND IT's ALLREADY UNTRUE.

This is only part of the post. I have attempted to edit the fowl language. This tells me alot about the anger and rage among young people. What I really don't understand, is why? What has happened to them that warrants this emotion? Can someone please explain? I'm embarassed to admit, but at that age, I cared little about politics, it seemed so unimportant to me at the time. The youth of today seems to have had everything handed to them in an instant gratification kind of way, at what point would they be willing to fight for their country, are most of them 'going along' with the 'popular' anti-war/Kerry message? Is it fear? My sons are 25, 22, and 20. I see none of this attitude in them. What the heck is going on? I used to say that I couldn't wait for the election to be over, now I realize, it may only get worse.

Kimberly
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Kim,

What happened to them was indoctrination in our liberal universities. Their minds have been permanently damaged. They cling to naive socialist ideals of a "forced" Utopia and fail to grasp the price a society pays when it surrenders its liberty to big government. The claim that "free" medical care should be provided by the government. They imagine that the government is a magical money-tree that can pay for everything. They simply do not understand that we the people pay for what they dole out. Then, they do not understand that liberty must be defended. They do not want personal freedom and liberty. They want freedom of speech but they cling to "freedom from responsibilty." They don't get it. We are engaged in a cultural war that pits the core values of western civilization against pure unadulterated hedonism. They fear and loathe our religious values and will stop at nothing to see all religious virtue and "mention" stricken from our lives in any form. They will not stop at the notion of "separation of church and state." Ultimately they will ban all mention of God in public and willl refuse any person from engaging in religious activity or pursuit. We are heading there now.

We as a nation are standing in the breech. We are the only power standing against the fall of western civilization. The only person that can stop the destruction of our civilization as we know it is George W. Bush. The Europeans have surrendered. Canadians have surrendered. Muslims long ago surrendered to rule of the mullahs or dictators.

The matter is too serious to deny. If John Kerry wins our nation will be surrendered to the whims of the hedonistic socialistic societies. John Kerry is a socialist and most likely a communist. Fear him mightily. Pray with all your might. We must ask God to work on the minds of the people of this nation like never before.
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momofthreegirls
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Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They want freedom of speech but they cling to "freedom from responsibilty."


This is true and I remember when I was about to leave teaching about 10 years ago the education system was trying to restructure how teachers disciplined. We were supposed to avoid "Assertive Discipline" techniques. That was where a child faced consequences for their actions. For example: 1st consequence would 5 minutes missed of recess and each consequence would get more severe as warranted. There was also a severe clause for things like fighting. Children were also rewarded for good behavior as well. Well anyway the educational elite in all their wisdom decided this was "bribing" children for good behavior and behavior modification should not be based on punishment and reward. Children should be "intrinsically"(from the inside) motivated to behave not "extrinsically" (from the outside) motivated. This meant if Johnny was throwing blocks in the block center you were to handle it this way: "Johnny, I can see that you do not know how to use the blocks. This means you will have to go to the puzzle area." Now, Johnny has learned that if he throws blocks he gets to play with puzzles. This is called redirecting. But the end result was that children were not taught that there are consequences for their actions. They were not held responsible for their behavior. Think about it though even as adults we are motivated by reward and punishment. It is how a society functions. They don't understand that. On a happier note though I have noticed with my own kids being in school 1st and 4th grade that they have returned to the "Assertive Discipline" model. I for one have taught my children about the choices they make and their consequences. I think I've said consequences so many times that now when I say it to the 9 year old she attempts this look Rolling Eyes which does not fly with Mom!
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Anker-Klanker
Admiral


Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Richardson, TX

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What the heck is going on?


The simple answer: it's the liberal (some would say socialist) infestation of our public schools and colleges and universities, and particularly the latter.

In my opinion the two biggest priorites we have as a nation are:
1) clean-out the MSM
2) clean-out our education system

It's those two areas where I think over 95% of this country's problems reside.
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Armybrat/Armymom
Commander


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 335
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen to that, nomorelies and momofthreegirls, well said.
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