 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
GT
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 90
|
 Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Looking forward to hearing from you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
USAF66-70
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 136
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Hey Doug, any thoughts/comments regarding the “Statement of Solidarity with our Swift Boat Brothers-in-Arms from Special Forces Vietnam Veteran,” signed by 356 Special Forces Vietnam Veterans? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Doug
How old was the VC that Kerry shot?
Did you see?
Thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| drjohn wrote: | Doug
How old was the VC that Kerry shot?
Did you see?
Thanks |
I have time for an easy one like this . . . . .
For reasons I won't go into now, I took note as to how old he was (looked). Someone else did the same and we agreed with each other.
18-20 years old.
The people on Nightline said 26-27 years old. Maybe, I mean, it's possible, I suppose, for us to be off like that. If they had said 30 or 35, I think I would have had to disagree, but 26-27 is posssible.
But I'll check myself later to be sure.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mooncusser
Lieutenant
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Missouri
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My experience in Nam was that a lot of people looked a lot younger or a lot older than they actually were.
The issue is not how old the vc was. That is a red herring thrown out there by Kerryites.
The issue is the discrepancy of the silver star citation and Kerry's two books.
This is where Unfit for Command and Kerry's two books are in complete harmony, as to the essential story.
And that is why we know that Kerry's silver star was not legitimate.
_________________
MACV '64...65
Thu Thua, Long An
I actually won the election before I lost it.
"It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die! Strong hearts, brave hearts to the front! Weak hearts and cowards to the rear!" (Crazy Horse) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DougReese wrote: |
For reasons I won't go into now, I took note as to how old he was (looked).
|
But let me ask you. If it were someone else, and they said that they stood over the corpse, with Kerry jawboning away, and saw no fatal wound but yet managed to judge the age of the corpse, would YOU believe them? Is that reasonably what you would expect one to remember, not that the wound was obviously front to back or back to front, or that it was visible to the naked eye at all, but that he appeared to be 18-20 but not 20-22? Or might you simply reply that truth is so often stranger than fiction, and far more incredible? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks again!
Now- how about the other question? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sevry wrote: | | DougReese wrote: |
For reasons I won't go into now, I took note as to how old he was (looked).
|
But let me ask you. If it were someone else, and they said that they stood over the corpse, with Kerry jawboning away, and saw no fatal wound but yet managed to judge the age of the corpse, would YOU believe them? Is that reasonably what you would expect one to remember, not that the wound was obviously front to back or back to front, or that it was visible to the naked eye at all, but that he appeared to be 18-20 but not 20-22? Or might you simply reply that truth is so often stranger than fiction, and far more incredible? |
Here you go again.
1. The 18-20 years old was an estimate. Two of us agreed on that, but it was an estimate. We didn't check his birth certificate. I'll do that later, though.
2. There is a reason that I noticed the age, but not the (killing) wound. I have stated the reasons in the past, but apparently you're no bandit, so here they are. Those who know me, believe what I say. Others like you, don't. That's fine with me.
I had just left a guy who was dead, and about 18-20, or so I thought (another estimate, and a correct one, I might add) -- more specifically, I wanted to get away from him. So I walked over to where I saw a Swift Boat. It turned out to be Kerry's. And there he was next to that guy . . . that dead guy. . . that dead guy who appeared to me to be the same age as the guy I wanted to get away from.
So I'm looking down at him, focused on the fact that he appeared to be the same age as the other guy. I had been in Vietnam almost a year at this point, and had seen quite a few dead bodies. There was nothing notable about this dead body to set it apart from the others I had seen. The fact that he was wearing shorts (a loincloth, whatever) also was noted. And yes, I know the villagers said he was wearing PJ's as was usually the case. I disagree. The Swiftee who agreed with me about the age also agrees that he was wearing shorts. . . . . . I noticed the leg wound (and this is a vague memory) because as Kerry told me what happened, that was mentioned, there it was. . . . . no other wounds made an impression on me. Other than to say he wasn't all shot up -- a bloody mess, for example -- is about all I could say. . . . . . the fact that you find it strange as to what I do, and do not, remember tells me something about you. You are not a combat veteran -- not a combat veteran from Vietnam or Korea who has seen a number of dead bodies. In the beginning, perhaps the first few, you have a tendency to notice every detail. After the first one, or the second, or the third . . . . it isn't new anymore.
This was 35 years ago. Some memories are vivid. Some aren't.
Oh, and one more thing. If the wound was from front-to-back, it likely wouldn't have been all that noticeable (the guy was on his back when I saw him), but then you know why that is, don't you?
And who is to say the wound wasn't from side-to-side? If he was laying on his back and the wound was side-to-side, that would be a reason to not have it stick out in your mind . . . in addition to what I already said.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Oh, and one more thing. If the wound was from front-to-back, it likely wouldn't have been all that noticeable (the guy was on his back when I saw him), but then you know why that is, don't you?"
Because someone turned him over to check him out? Or because the exit wound is always bigger?
Are you saying you do not know for certain the wound entry point?
TIA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mooncusser
Lieutenant
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Missouri
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Did the guy have a bowel movement that day ? How many fillings did he have ? What color were his eyes. Did he part hair on left or right. Were any dna samples taken? Were his nails manicured or dirty ?
I have more questions after these are answered. 
_________________
MACV '64...65
Thu Thua, Long An
I actually won the election before I lost it.
"It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die! Strong hearts, brave hearts to the front! Weak hearts and cowards to the rear!" (Crazy Horse) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mooncusser wrote: | Did the guy have a bowel movement that day ? How many fillings did he have ? What color were his eyes. Did he part hair on left or right. Were any dna samples taken? Were his nails manicured or dirty ?
I have more questions after these are answered. |
Long An? I was there. . . . all around there, in my pre-advisor days, with the 9th.
Do you remember the Cao Dai Temple on (what was then) the edge of Tan An?
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| drjohn wrote: | "Oh, and one more thing. If the wound was from front-to-back, it likely wouldn't have been all that noticeable (the guy was on his back when I saw him), but then you know why that is, don't you?"
Because someone turned him over to check him out? Or because the exit wound is always bigger?
Are you saying you do not know for certain the wound entry point?
TIA |
If he was on his back, and the entry would was in the front, it quite possibly wouldn't be all that obvious.
No, I don't know where the entry/exit wound was. Someone else (I'm referring to Americans there that day) has a vivid memory of it, but not me.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mooncusser
Lieutenant
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Missouri
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hey Doug
No I don't remember the temple. I went to Tan An almost every day from Thu Thua, for mail call. It was a pretty safe road then.
I was there in '64 and '65. We hit a water mine July 20 or 21st '65. I was done for....don't remember much of anything.
They named a compound in Tan An after my captain, who was kia by the mine.
_________________
MACV '64...65
Thu Thua, Long An
I actually won the election before I lost it.
"It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die! Strong hearts, brave hearts to the front! Weak hearts and cowards to the rear!" (Crazy Horse) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| drjohn wrote: | Thanks again!
Now- how about the other question? |
The other question -- "Did you see?"
Did I see Kerry shoot him? Is that what you're asking?
No, I didn't.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No, no, no- the important thing-
Why do you support Kerry? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
