SwiftVets.com

Geano · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:25 am Post subject:

Here's what I reffed before above...
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml

PowerPro · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:30 am Post subject:

Okay - color me clueless but I'm not seeing it.

The first post didn't say that Jean François Kerrée participated in that trip and the most recent post referred to October and November of 1969 - not July.

Am I missing something?
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NavyChief · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:37 am Post subject:

ord33 · Rear Admiral Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 670 Location: Ohio

Well, we at least we know where Ted Kennedy was, he was involved in Chappaquiddick 18 July 1969! Very Happy

I B Squidly · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:50 am Post subject:

Thanks for all your good works.

Trying the obvious I went over to Front Page and sent a query to Horowitz. He's no friend of Kerry's.

Hondo · LCDR Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 423 Location: USA

Chief,

Interesting - on two counts.

The “antiwar trip to Havana” possibility seems definitely worth checking out. Kerry was a pilot; one-way distance from New Orleans to Havana is within the range of a late-1960s private plane; and acording to the Leave Record posted on his site, he was on leave from 4 July 1969 to 27 July 1969. He was also TDY to New Orleans on 29 July 1969.

I also think it's eminently possible such a plane could have made it to Cuba without being noticed - by either the US or Cuba. Hell, if a 19 year old German (Mathias Rust) could fly a private plane from West Germany to Red Square and land unannounced in 1987, I think it's eminently possible someone could do the same going from New Orleans to Cuba in 1969.

I think if Kerry flew Horowitz to Havana, we'd have heard about that already - from Horowitz himself. Horowitz has had a rather dramatic change of heart since the late 1960s. However, if Horowitz wasn't one of those who actually traveled to Havana . . . .

There may also be something else here.

In October 1969 Kerry was still on active duty. 15 October 1969 was a Wednesday. Wednesday would have normally been a duty day unless Kerry was on leave, pass, or otherwise had permission to be absent from his duties in Brooklyn.

Kerry's leave records posted on his web site don't show him being on leave on 15 October 1969. In fact, the July leave noted previously is the last entry under “leave taken” on Kerry's leave record.

So that makes me wonder: just what was Kerry's status on 15 October 1969 when he was flying Walinsky around to Moratorium events? Was he on pass, was he informally given the day off by Admiral Schlech - or did he just "skate out" to fly Walinsky and others around to anti-war protest events? Seems to me the latter would be frowned on by the Navy.

I believe that documented evidence that an officer had skipped work without authority just might be grounds for a less than honorable discharge - "failure to repair" would be the operative article of the UCMJ. As best as I can tell, the statue of limitations for preferring charges for FTR in the late 1960s/early 1970s was 3 years.

Three years from 15 October 1969 would be 14 October 1972, while Kerry was in the Standby Reserve.

Hypothetically speaking, I wonder what might have happened if the Navy had found out in, say, late 1971 or early 1972 about Kerry's being absent from duty on 15 October 1969 - a duty day - without proper authority so he could fly antiwar protesters to protest events?
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

Beatrice1000 · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:11 am Post subject:

Geano · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:26 am Post subject:

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/1777/nlgterr.htm

ord33 · Rear Admiral Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 670 Location: Ohio

Geano · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:52 am Post subject:

Aah, if we just had the FBI files on Kerry (not vvaw)...they exist, I think....
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dcornutt · PO3 Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 267 Location: Brooklyn, NY

hmm...try this

http://www.themilitant.com/2003/6732/673258.html

YSA (young socialist movement) was "invited" by cuba in 69 to send a delegation. Several of the members who went were anti-vietnam activists (doesn't list names).

But, it does answer the question..how did they get through? They were invited.

Hondo · LCDR Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 423 Location: USA

This explains how they might avoid getting shot down.

It doesn't make it all that easy to get from the US to Cuba, however. They'd still have to do it clandestinely.

If I remember correctly, travel to Cuba without the prior approval of the US government was against federal law in the late 1960s. I believe that is still the case today.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

ord33 · Rear Admiral Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 670 Location: Ohio

dcornutt · PO3 Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 267 Location: Brooklyn, NY

I might guess it was done via "schools"..ie..colleges..who were sponsors and breeding grounds for socialist movements..etc. as was often the case..where they got "cover" for many things they did.

According to YSA websites..they have been making regular vists to Cuba since 1970 and still do even today.

While the wintersolider.com etc..has a bit of stuff on YSA and there connection to the anti-war movements...there were many (and are) socialist..etc..movements in this country since a long, long time ago. (early 1900s) But, specifically, in schools, and during the 60s-early70s..much merging and cross pollentation and polticial restructuring went on in many of these movements with anti-war movements, etc.

Geano · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:22 pm Post subject:

From previous posts of mine

http://horse.he.net/~swiftpow/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10626
Kerry at San Diego from 22 July 1968 to (?) of November 1968?

Coincidences?

... from the FBI files on VVAW :

In August of 1968, C. James Boggio appeared at an open meeting of the Socialist Workers Party and spoke of his trip to the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, and the demonstrations in which he participated...

From the LA Sept 8 1970 FBI Valley Forge peace march report:
Oct 2, 1968 March and rally in San Francisco, Calif: Speaker Gen. Hugh Hester

FBI Memo November 11, 1968
October 27, 1968 "C. James Boggio" A letter stating "join me in a revolution”…Having served as coordinator of (VVAW) for the past year...and participated in the Chicago Uprisings..." letter calls for meeting to "revigorate" VVAW on November 3, 1968.
Lists return address in LA "c/o Marcia Silverstein"

Kerry was ordered to report to SEA on October 31, 1968

Same memo:
Boggio proposes renaming and remodeling VVAW as “GI’s and Vietnam Veterans Against the War” and breaking with the “moribund Vets for Peace” because they were “veterans of bow-and-arrow wars.” “None of them senile World War I vets at this meeting, nosirree!”

November 3 1968 meeting came off as scheduled according to other information and GI-VVAW was formed.

November 17, 1968: Kerry reports to SEA…18 days late.

GI’s-VVAW messed around for about a year, stirring stuff up in the area, and, according to the FBI, appears to have been infiltrated by the “Youth Socialist Alliance” of the “Socialist Worker’s Party” and by August 8, 1969, GI’s-VVAW vanished from the scene.

So does Boggio. He was last reported as being in Denver Colorado. I am unable to trace him at all, and apparently FBI couldn’t either. There are several redacted areas in some of the memos where Boggio is mentioned in this time frame (summer-fall 1969).

http://horse.he.net/~swiftpow/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9530