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BienHoa69-70 · Seaman Recruit Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 18

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1243912/posts
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jim_nyc · Seaman Joined: 13 Sep 2004 Posts: 198

This is significant.
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Hammer2 · PO2 Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Posts: 387 Location: Texas

This is a link to a post by me on some interesting things about Kerry's security clearence:

http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=84626#84626

KWJams · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:17 pm Post subject:

Related -- but unconfirmed story breaking on free reublic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1243912/posts?q=1&&page=1#1

Rdtf · CNO Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 2209 Location: BUSHville

Just what I was thinking - and then received a 'less than honorable' discharge. hmmm.

GoophyDog · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:02 pm Post subject:

Perhaps not so bad...

1. The forms are standard in an enlistment packet. Since Kerry was "enlisting" the first form would be filled in.

2. Upon enlisting Kerry was bumped to OCS, another BI would ensue as a standard part of the package.

The actual forms are the same for secret and top-secret; the only difference being in what is required to be filled in so some pages may have been either stripped out due to being blank.

If memory serves, clearances were not issued service wide, but at the command level, based on duties etc. Upon reporting to a new unit a review would be made and local clearance issued. If there was paperwork missing, then again, a BI would be started - not an unusual situation to lose or have the paperwork misfiled. Once detached from the command, the clearance would be withdrawn (except in a TDY status).

The differences in investigations between a secret and top-secret are pretty extensive and manpower intensive. A temporary clearance could be issued where needed BUT the paperwork for a final would have to have been started. Once completed, the temporary would be cancelled and a final clearance issued - yep, another form.

TS clearances require timely review - usually 4-5 years or less and that's not including any SC type requirements. As a deck officer Kerry may have been required to access compartmented info, depending on the mission etc.

So, the multiple forms and requests for investigation are not that unusual. Sort of typifies the SNAFU's that occur when someone bounces between units as often as Kerry seemed to.
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Geano · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject:

Hammer

I seem to remember I was BG check refreshed prior to tech school, and then again prior to overseas...I was told that was normal refresh, and I think I was checked a couple of other times. I seem to remember being told that this was typical for a lot of career fields...It is quite possible that I am not remembering this correctly-it's a blurry recollection...I do not have those records...heck, I even have suspicions that I was checked out at times after separation/discharge...

Heck, I think goophydog just confirmed while I was entering that reply...
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Hammer2 · PO2 Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Posts: 387 Location: Texas

SBD · Admiral Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 1022

This is from a previous post.

Hammer2 · PO2 Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Posts: 387 Location: Texas

SBD,
Just to clear it up for you, this form comes with the no block filled in. It means that the respondant cannot answer no to the question, he must agree that he has read the list of groups and certifies he has not been a member of any of them.
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Truegrit · Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:46 pm Post subject: Need to substantiate carefully

Important to stick to verifiable claims, because fraudulent claims can backfire. Did Kerry have Top Secret clearance, and would he have needed a security clearance that high? Was it revoked, and if so, was it simply because he was no longer active duty, or because of conduct after he returned from Vietnam?

Again, this would be potentially very relevant for the campaign to keep Kerry out of the oval office, if it can be substantiated properly.
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reconflyer · Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:34 pm Post subject:

As a person who has carried that type of clearance for almost 20 years, I can tell you that I would not find it surprising at all that a jr. naval officer that commanded a vessel would have a TS.

I can also tell you that the way the government grants and pulls such a clearance changes often, and that the buearocracy involved can be stifling.

I don't know about then, but in today's world, the clearance (not the in-force background investigation) is attached at the hip to a billet. In other words, you may be eligible by investigation to hold a TS billet, but you may not be assigned to a TS billet. In that case, you would be debriefed and sign away your clearance if your previous assignment was a TS billet. If you came back into a TS billet after being in a non-TS billet, and your back ground investigation was still in force, they simply re-inbrief you.

This would be a very difficult dog to chase through the bryers. I've been "out-briefed" in between assignments, where I "lost" my clearance, just to be "in-briefed" and re-sign my non-disclosures and all of that when I arrived at my new station.

So you can say that I've technically "lost" my TS probably five or six times. Nowadays, you can transfer "in-status", but that is a fairly recent thing.

Then again, you can be suspended for cause as well.

reconflyer
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Active duty AF 1986-Present
Enlisted Aircrew 1990-Present

Largebill · Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:42 pm Post subject: Clearances

Having been involved with clearances and having been in recruiting, I think some of this is explainable. When someone enlists normally only the most basic background check is conducted (National Agency Check). If a Sailor gets sent to a school which would most likely result in requirement to handle TS material then a BI or SBI is initiated. An officer candidate almost always undergoes at least a standard BI. Once a BI has been satisfactorily conducted you are eligible for a clearance. You don't actually have the clearance until your command determines you need it in the performance of your duties. An Ensign report to a ship and is given duties as DCA (Damage Control Assistant) clearance wouldn't be required. However, in performance of duties as JOOD he needs access to classified publications. That is pretty basic to every new officer to a ship. Now after a year he is reassigned as COMMO and they upgrade his clearance and grant access to Top Secret. Once someone had a clearance they used to retain it until revoked or administratively removed for reassignment to duties not requiring a clearance.

rlgoodin · Seaman Recruit Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 10

I was researching the possibility of getting a secret clearance in an effort to get a better job. The good ole USA takes about 18 months to clear an American citizen. You have to be hired by a company that needs one before the clearance can be granted. This means if a company decides to hire you, it must pay you for about 18 months before you can work in any meaningfull capacity. It is a barrier to employment, that punishes the government with more expensive labor rates and limited skill sets.

Too bad, Canada takes only 3 months for a clearance. Sad