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BrianC
PO2
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 364
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 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:00 pm Post subject: Kerry Tale Ending |
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Kerry Tale Ending
A fantasy tax-plan to win the White House
With the political landscape denuded of striking policy proposals, Sen. John Kerry last week took the opportunity to call for that proven vote-getter, the $7 minimum wage. Minimum wage. A busted, Progressive-era artifact: the surest sign yet that Kerry has absolutely no idea how to beat President George W. Bush.
http://www.reason.com/links/links062104.shtml |
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NoDonkey
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 78
Location: Arlington, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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It's a good strategy for Kerry - the people that will actually benefit, Union Members will love it and the people it will hurt, young entry-level workers with few skills certainly won't be informed by the brain-dead Democratic Party pocket media that this will vastly decrease their job prospects.
There are so many things wrong with this idea it's hard to know where to start. Typical boneheaded "one-size-fits-all" Democratic Party nonsense. In metropolitan areas like NYC, DC, Boston etc., you can't hire anyone for less than $7 an hour, and in rural areas in the mid-west/south, it's difficult for entry level workers to produce enough to be worth $7 an hour (which turns out to be around $12-$15 an hour once you factor in social security payments, unemployment contributions, etc).
I can hold out hope that this is such an old, tired and discredited idea that it won't hold water.
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"Liberalism is totalitarianism with a human face." - Thomas Sowell |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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There are several states that already have minimum hourly wages above $7.00 per hour.
For Christ's Sake...Ten years ago I was paying hard-working illegal immigrants $10 an hour for yard and garden work in California.
Semi-skilled workers with English skills are paid that right now here in Puerto Vallarta, MEXICO and that's tax free cash to them! Granted, it's a resort and gringo town with a high cost of living but.......
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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BrianC
PO2
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| NoDonkey wrote: | | In metropolitan areas like NYC, DC, Boston etc., you can't hire anyone for less than $7 an hour, and in rural areas in the mid-west/south, it's difficult for entry level workers to produce enough to be worth $7 an hour |
There's a "Good Times Burgers" near my office here in Denver. Right now they have a sign outside, "Now Hiring, $7.25 start".
Since Kerry wants to increase the min. wage to $7.00, he's clearly asking prospective employees to take a pay cut. |
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nakona
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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You know, I think a minimum wage is a good thing.
BUT, it should be set based on market realities and geographic locations, not politics.
Right off the bat, you have to know that having the same minimum wage in Huntington, West Virginia that you do in New York City, is just plain silly.
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NoDonkey
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 78
Location: Arlington, VA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| nakona wrote: | You know, I think a minimum wage is a good thing.
BUT, it should be set based on market realities and geographic locations, not politics.
Right off the bat, you have to know that having the same minimum wage in Huntington, West Virginia that you do in New York City, is just plain silly. |
Minimum wage laws might be well-intentioned, but it raises unemployment and it hurts people at the low end of the employment ladder.
For example, whatever happened to all of the jobs there used to be pumping gas? For a while there were full service lines and "pump your own", now it's a very rare sight to find a full service line.
Pumping gas is a good entry level job for teenagers to learn job skills. It's not something you're supposed to support a family of four on.
The jobs that disappear because of minimum wage jobs aren't noticed and it's a shame. There should be a study done on how many jobs there are destroyed by each percentage increase in the minimum wage. You are correct that in many localities the MW is irrelevant, but where it is relevant are the places that most need low-end jobs.
It's just simple economics - as you raise labor costs eventually it's cheaper to replace jobs with machines.
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"Liberalism is totalitarianism with a human face." - Thomas Sowell |
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sdpatriot
Ensign
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 50
Location: SD
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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i'm going to have to go along with the genius Liberal Larry who
writes the blog BlameBush! he says we should also have a
MAXIMUM wage. 
it makes sense... if Kerry gets in and makes the minimum was 20$
and hour..... and then also makes a maximum wage of 20$ an hour..
it would be a socialist utopia.. and we would at long last all be equal.
of course, as one of his fans pointed out, then there would have to
be a maximum hours per week law too, or the dirty CEO's and
money hungry conservatives would work MORE hours and then
things would not be fair and equal.
i think it's a grand plan.... 
sdpatriot
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George Washington, Farewell Address, September 19, 1796 |
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:02 am Post subject: |
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LiberalLarry must not be very good at anything, or he'd expect to be paid more...
Or maybe he's one of the Kerry supporters who expects to be one of those of whom it can be said:
| Quote: | | Never have so many been paid so much for doing so little. |
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Last edited by Scott on Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| NoDonkey wrote: | | nakona wrote: | You know, I think a minimum wage is a good thing.
BUT, it should be set based on market realities and geographic locations, not politics.
Right off the bat, you have to know that having the same minimum wage in Huntington, West Virginia that you do in New York City, is just plain silly. |
Minimum wage laws might be well-intentioned, but it raises unemployment and it hurts people at the low end of the employment ladder.
For example, whatever happened to all of the jobs there used to be pumping gas? For a while there were full service lines and "pump your own", now it's a very rare sight to find a full service line.
Pumping gas is a good entry level job for teenagers to learn job skills. It's not something you're supposed to support a family of four on.
The jobs that disappear because of minimum wage jobs aren't noticed and it's a shame. There should be a study done on how many jobs there are destroyed by each percentage increase in the minimum wage. You are correct that in many localities the MW is irrelevant, but where it is relevant are the places that most need low-end jobs.
It's just simple economics - as you raise labor costs eventually it's cheaper to replace jobs with machines. |
I think this is a myth. I've never seen any good evidence of this. Look - it takes people to make manufacture,design,market,gather resources, if you automate. It's a whole new industry.That means jobs. Yes more things will become automated, but that should lower the price of those items! It should also increase the owners profit margins! How does that hurt the economy?
Higher wages means more money being spent in the economy. Jobs don't disappear because the wages are higher. Good and services are still needed in the economy. When people can't make enough to live on, they resort to crime or dispair. This leads to all kinds of problems in the lower class, drug use, violence, et al. There are many non economic costs! Especially amongst the population that most often finds itself in low paying jobs.
Read "Being Nickel and Dimed"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805063897/102-5963383-1812139?v=glance
Sure ASPB may have kindly hired someone to do his lawn at a decent wage, but this isolated story does not make a great basis for policy. Doesn't mean unemployment is easily resolved. Great there are jobs out there! Why not make them for decent wages so that people will take them? Otherwise they will be chasing their tails trying to earn enough to be able to afford to go to work all the time. There is a distinction between what is good for business and what is tantamount to allowing a kind of economic slavery. Granted, in the US we have it much better than the vast majority of the world. I just think the social costs of always respecting business first and families being able to make a living wage second, is wrong headed.
In a nutshell. I don't necessarily buy the fact that higher mininum wage hurts the economy. It MAY hurt businesses bottom line, but that's not SO bad is it? After all the hardest physically working people in any economy tend to be the poor. Why shouldn't they get a fair shake? Tax laws are designed to benefit businesses that can afford to hire clever accountants get the owners money back. Why shouldn't the workers get a little government protection as well? I'm not talking socialism here, I'm talking humanity. |
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MikeWinn
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 110
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Jeremy, Jeremy, Jeremy. How young you must be. You stated:
I think this is a myth. I've never seen any good evidence of this. Look - it takes people to make manufacture,design,market,gather resources, if you automate. It's a whole new industry.That means jobs. Yes more things will become automated, but that should lower the price of those items! It should also increase the owners profit margins! How does that hurt the economy?
Do you really think that automating any process/procedure is FREE????
Geeeeez Ever heard of a thing called 'retained earnings'? Ever hear of
anyone 'reinvesting in plant/equipment to upgrade and modernize?? Ever hear of the steel industry unions successfully demanding salary/benefit
increases at the expense of modernization?? Where have all the steel mills gone, long time passing. hehe 
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Spectre Gunner and 141 FE
Dedicated to Rico. KIA March 14, 1971.
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| MikeWinn wrote: | Jeremy, Jeremy, Jeremy. How young you must be. You stated:
I think this is a myth. I've never seen any good evidence of this. Look - it takes people to make manufacture,design,market,gather resources, if you automate. It's a whole new industry.That means jobs. Yes more things will become automated, but that should lower the price of those items! It should also increase the owners profit margins! How does that hurt the economy?
Do you really think that automating any process/procedure is FREE????
Geeeeez Ever heard of a thing called 'retained earnings'? Ever hear of
anyone 'reinvesting in plant/equipment to upgrade and modernize?? Ever hear of the steel industry unions successfully demanding salary/benefit
increases at the expense of modernization?? Where have all the steel mills gone, long time passing. hehe |
Right. You seem to know something about economics, and you'll agree that it's complex. Exactly correct. Not free. The owners have to INVEST which stimulates the economy. Of course some businesses won't survive. I leave it to the businessmen to look out for their own interests.
Did you consider the potential benefits. Happy workers, higher output, less sick days, a better society, less crime. These are all factors that "simple" economics cannot take into account.
If I own a company and the minimum wage rises, it may hurt my bottom line, but I don't necessarily go out of business. |
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