SwiftVets.com

[drjohn]

Idle

Would this be on Kerry's DD214?

[Hondo]

drjohn:

No - his DD214 was issued in 1970 when he left active duty and transferred to the USNR. It predates any final discharge from the military Kerry received. Officers are not discharged on leaving active duty. Officers have to (1) voluntarily resign or retire, (2) be involuntarily separated for age/years of service/cause/other admin reasons, or (3) be separated as the result of legal action. Only then is an officer discharged from the military.

Fort Campbell:

We need either CAPT Nelson or Mr. Sullivan - or both - to come forward and go public. Alternatively, someone else with PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE that Kerry had received a "bad" discharge might also work. CAPT Nelson or Mr. Sullivan would be preferable, as either was most definitely in a position to have personal knowledge of the facts in Kerry's case.
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[Fort Campbell]

(Deleted By Admin)

[Fort Campbell]

(Deleted by Admin)

Admin note: Until the legitimacy of this e-mail is established beyond doubt, please do NOT reproduce it in this forum. Thanks.

[stylin19]

[Me#1You#10]

Admin note: Until the legitimacy of the e-mail referenced in this topic is established beyond doubt, please do NOT reproduce it in this forum. Thanks.

[mangdawg]

stevec wrote:
Quote
"From an intelligence source that can't be disclosed. The discharge was Undesirable not Dishonorable. Let's don't overstate the case."


Collaboration with the enemy is SOMETHING that should scream out to everyone, and what ever type of discharge he got, Undesirable/Dishonorable, should not be the issue. The fact remains, Kerry's anti-war activities and his "Anti-Americanism" are the facts.



>>There are two types of separations given by the armed forces of the United States to enlisted service-members: punitive discharges and administrative separations.

Punitive Discharges. Punitive discharges are authorized punishments of courts-martial and can only be awarded as an approved court-martial sentence pursuant to a conviction for a violation of the UCMJ. There are two types of punitive discharges: Dishonorable Discharge (DD) -- which can only be adjudged by a general court-martial and is a separation under dishonorable conditions; and Bad-Conduct Discharge (BCD) -- which can be adjudged by either a general court-martial or a special court-martial and is a separation under conditions other than honorable.

Administrative Separations. Administrative separations cannot be awarded by a court-martial and are not punitive in nature. Enlisted personnel may be administratively separated with a characterization of service (characterized separation) or description of separation (uncharacterized separation) as warranted by the facts of the particular case.

Characterization of Service. Characterization at separation is based upon the quality of the member's service, including the reason for separation and guidance below. The military determines the "quality of service" in accordance with standards of acceptable personal conduct and performance of duty for military personnel found in the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), directives and regulations issued by the Department of Defense and the Military Departments, and the time-honored customs and traditions of military service.

The quality of service of a member on active duty or active duty for training is affected adversely by conduct that is of a nature to bring discredit on the Military Services or is prejudicial to good order and discipline, regardless of whether the conduct is subject to UCMJ jurisdiction. Characterization may be based on conduct in the civilian community, and the burden is on the respondent to demonstrate that such conduct did not adversely affect the respondent's service.

The Military considers the reasons for separation, including the specific circumstances that form the basis for the separation, on the issue of characterization. As a general matter, regulations require the military to determine characterization upon a pattern of behavior rather than an isolated incident. There are circumstances, however, in which the conduct or performance of duty reflected by a single incident provides the basis for characterization.

Under Other Than Honorable Conditions. OTH Discharges are warranted when the reason for separation is based upon a pattern of behavior that constitutes a significant departure from the conduct expected of members of the Military Services, or when the reason for separation is based upon one or more acts or omissions that constitute a significant departure from the conduct expected of members of the Military Services. Examples of factors that may be considered include the use of force or violence to produce serious bodily injury or death, abuse of a special position of trust, disregard by a superior of customary superior-subordinate relationships, acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other members of the Military Services, and deliberate acts or omissions that seriously endanger the health and safety of other persons.

Persons awarded an OTH characterization of service: are not entitled to retain their uniforms or wear them home (although they may be furnished civilian clothing at a cost of not more than $50); must accept transportation in kind to their homes; are subject to recoupment of any reenlistment bonus they may have received; are not eligible for notice of discharge to employers (which may affect unemployment benefits); and, do not receive mileage fees from the place of discharge to their home of record.

It is generally believed that an OTH Discharge will render an individual ineligible for all VA Benefits. This is not necessarily so. The Department of Veterans Affairs will make its own determination with respect as to whether the OTH was based on conditions which would forfeit any or all VA benefits. Most veterans' benefits will be forfeited if that determination is adverse to the former service-member, such as when based on the following circumstances: (1) Desertion; (2) escape prior to trial by general court-martial; (3) conscientious objector who refuses to perform military duties, wear the uniform, or comply with lawful orders of competent military authorities; (4) willful or persistent misconduct; (5) offense(s) involving moral turpitude; (6) mutiny or spying; or (7) homosexual acts involving aggravating circumstances. <<


i edited to remove Honorable, Gen-under H conditions and Administrative to shorten this.

[PowerPro]

Brokaw interview with Kerry. Interesting response to military records question.

Brokaw: Someone has analyzed the President's military aptitude tests and yours, and concluded that he has a higher IQ than you do.

Kerry: That's great. More power. I don't know how they've done it, because my record is not public. So I don't know where you're getting that from.


(Excerpt) Read More...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1260758/posts
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ANNOUNCING: DOUBLE W. Which means, KERRY LOST! Now don't that feel GOOD????

Thank you SBVs & POWs FT! Your service to this country is incalculable!!!

[Rdtf]

Hey that 'someone' is Aristotle the Hun!!!!

[cipher]

[BrianC]

Yeah, and expecting Brokaw to question Kerry further on his outright LIE about his records is like waiting for Kerry to suddenly start confessing his traitorous past.

Are they "all released" or are they "not public"???? WHICH IS, TRAITOR JOHN??

[Cazador]

Hi,

Mark Sullivan replied to a short email I sent thanking him for his help and service.

He sent a rather long note that I will not copy here since I do not have his permission.

To paraphrase though:

He is assisting Tom Lipscomb with Navy law and procedure issues regarding Tom's investigation into Kerry's records.

He gave a little background on himself and then said we was glad so many vets are taking Kerry to task over his records.

He is letting Tom do the talking and "I am declining requests for further information at this time."

A very polite and nice response from a supporter of this cause.

I told him that perhaps a destroyer ought to be named for Nelson and Sullivan

Cazador

[ord33]

[MJB]

Terrific news!!!!

Go Team Swiftie!!!
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MJB
USAF '85-'92

[Stevie]

hey, that's it .... maybe we can get a ship or FBI bldg named after John O'Neill !!!

He deserves it ! or at least a small monument next to the Vietnam wall - for his major effert to get their honor restored !

or they should name a new medal of honor after him!

and one of these after NavyChief!!!!

NC should probably get the FBI bldg for all his investigation !
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.