 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
HawkeyeLonewolf
Ensign
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 69
|
 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:43 pm Post subject: Explosives explained! Red Label is NOT IAEA Seal! |
 |
|
http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200410282152.asp
Label from video: http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3740.html?cat=1
Label can be bought online: http://www.dgsupplies.com/shopping/customer/home.php?cat=8&js=n
(it's a simple label to indicate a class of explosives 1.1D)
| Quote: | ABOUT THAT TELEVISION AFFILIATE VIDEOTAPE FROM AL-QAQAA
I watched the big ABC News report: “Video Suggests Explosives Disappeared After U.S. Took Control.”
And at first glance, it appears to make the case that when the 101st Airborne Division arrived on April 18, 2003, there was still a large supply of explosive materials in the facility.
But there are still a few problems with this story.
Problem one: Take a look at the orange label on the container, in this photo.
It says, “EXPLOSIV EXPLOSIVE 1.1 D 1”. (The same label can be purchased here.)
There are three explosives we are looking for here:
HMX, cyclotetramethylene-tetranitramine, also called Tetrahexamine Tetranitramine
RDX, Cyclotrimethylene trinitramine, and
PETN, Pentaerythritol Tetranitrate
According to this chart from GlobalSecurity.org, the 1.1D classification can be used for the storage and transport of quite a few high powered explosives. Among them are:
Cyclotetramethylene-tetranitramine, wetted or HMX, wetted or Octogen, wetted with not less than 15 percent water, by mass
Cyclotrimethylene-trinitramine, wetted or Cyclonite, wetted or Hexogen, wetted or RDX, wetted with not less than 15 percent water by mass
Pentaerythrite tetranitrate, wetted or Pentaerythritol tetranitrate, wetted, or PETN, wetted with not less than 25 percent water, by mass, or Pentaerythrite tetranitrate, or Pentaerythritol tetranitrate, or PETN, desensitized with not less than 15 percent phlegmatizer by mass.
So - this orange 1.1 D is the label we would look for on HMX, RDX, or PETN. But did those explosives in these containers have 15 or 25 percent water or other dilution liquid in them? Or did they look pretty dry in that desert?
And as we look at the rest of that chart, we see that a lot of other explosives that fall in the 1.1 D category.
Specifically there are 79 other substances and types of explosive material and supporting equipment that would get the 1.1 D label, including gunpowder, flexible detonating cord, photo-flash bombs, mines, nitroglycerin, rocket warheads, grenades, fuzes, torpedoes and charges. And few of them require any liquid dilution.
Is what’s on this news report video HMX, RDX, or PETN? Possibly, if the material inside is some sort of diluting liquid that we didn’t see on the tape, or if the Iraqis were storing these high-grade explosives in an unsafe manner. Or it could be one of the 79 other substances. Or some containers could have the big three, and some could have others.
As usual, it is foolish for folks to jump in and conclude that they know what was in the containers without gathering all of the facts. How many Kerry-backing writers who will cite this video as a smoking gun are familiar with what materials are classified 1.1D?
Problem two: This doesn’t quite explain the internal IAEA documents ABC reported that suggested that significant amounts were gone before the invasion began. “Confidential IAEA documents obtained by ABC News show that on Jan. 14, 2003, the agency's inspectors recorded that just over three tons of RDX were stored at the facility — a considerable discrepancy from what the Iraqis reported.” It all suddenly came back before the war? Or is what we’re seeing in the video three tons?
Problem three: This doesn’t quite explain the Pentagon’s satellite photos of large numbers of trucks leaving the facilities before the war.
Problem four: This doesn’t quite explain how all this could be taken down a road full of heavily armed U.S. forces, under skies full of coalition warplanes. The Pentagon called the removal of that much material from the facility during or after the war “very highly improbable”:
Col. David Perkins commanded the 2nd Brigade of the 3rd Infantry Division, the division that led the charge into Baghdad. Those troops first captured the Iraqi weapons depot from which 377 tons of explosives disappeared.
Two major roads that pass near the Al-Qaqaa installation were filled with U.S. military traffic in the weeks after April 3, 2003, when U.S. troops first reached the area, the colonel said.
Perkins and others in the military acknowledged that some looting at the site had taken place. But he said a large-scale operation to remove the explosives using trucks almost certainly would have been detected.
Problem five: This doesn’t quite explain why none of this explosive has to date shown up in any Iraqi insurgent attack.
One last observation. Follow the shifting headline as the story moves from one news agency to another:
ABC News headline: “Video Suggests Explosives Disappeared After U.S. Took Control
Reuters headline: “Report: Video Shows Explosives Went Missing After War”
[Posted 10/28 09:52 PM] |
If Saddam was storing HMX or RDX in an unstable state, the IAEA should not have "sealed" it without stabilizing it. So most likely that "powder" was NOT any of the hot 3 types.
Plastic explosives can be any of a number of types. C4? RDX? Who knows?
Thanks to the Pentagon, the explosives apparently WERE properly moved by US Forces to a secure facility and destroyed.
CASE CLOSED
Duplicate Topic http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15015 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
HawkeyeLonewolf
Ensign
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 69
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If the soldiers in that video were actually handling these raw materials in the manner shown, let's see their health records! Let's hear from those soldiers.
A lot of conjecture can come from just a video. Let the people who shot it explain.
Some more notes...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/explosives-nitramines.htm
RDX
=============
As with most military explosives, RDX is rarely used alone; it is widely used as a component of plastic explosives, detonators, high explosives in artillery rounds, Claymore mines, and demolition kits. RDX has limited civilian use as a rat poison.
RDX can cause seizures in humans and animals when large amounts are inhaled or ingested. Nausea and vomiting have also been observed.
Despite the low toxicity of RDX, exposure should be maintained at the lowest levels possible due to its possible carcinogenicity. General medical surveillance examinations can be conducted (such as liver and kidney function tests), but specific testing for the effects of low level occupational exposure does not appear to be warranted, given the absence of abnormal results even in those patients with RDX-induced seizures. Surveillance for both males and females should also include a screening questionnaire for reproductive history. Pregnant women should avoid exposure to RDX.
HMX
==============
Studies in rats, mice, and rabbits indicate that HMX may be harmful to the liver and central nervous system if it is swallowed or contacts the skin. The lowest dose producing any effects in animals was 100 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day (mg/kg/day) orally and 165 mg/kg/day on the skin. Limited evidence suggests that even a single exposure to these dose levels harmed rabbits. The mechanism by which HMX causes adverse effects on the liver and nervous system is not understood.
When applied to the dermis, it induces mild skin irritation but not delayed contact sensitization. Various acute and subchronic neurobehavioral effects have been reported in rabbits and rodents, including ataxia, sedation, hyperkinesia, and convulsions. The chronic effects of HMX that have been documented through animal studies include decreased hemoglobin, increased serum alkaline phosphatase, and decreased albumin. Pathological changes were also observed in the animals' livers and kidneys. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
