SwiftVets.com

whitecleats · Seaman Recruit Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 10

Hello, I am a young guy and I wanted to thank you vetrans for building this site and for serving our country in a just cause. Although I am not from your generation I am completely disgusted with John Kerry and his conduct in regards to Vietnam. I remember watching a segment on NBC where the commentator was 'condeming' Nixon for trying to discredit Kerry's tales as lies. Well, now that Kerry has admitted to 'overexagerating the war' for political purposes, I think more time should be spent by the media admitting to the fact that Nixon was honest and correct and that Kerry was the one doing the smearing. But, I doubt NBC or anyone else will correct their errors of judgement.

mikest · PO2 Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 377

God I hope that is satire. Nixon honest and correct? That is some serious historical revisionism.

hist/student · Lieutenant Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 243

unabashed comprehensive retraction

Greenhat · LCDR Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 405

whitecleats · Seaman Recruit Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 10

Hey "hist-student": The only one personally attacking people is you and by the way, you spelled voting wrong. You may want to question your own biases and perceptions before you tell me not to vote. If you truly are an objective history student, then you will be able to put the facts together and see that Nixon was telling the truth and that Kerry was the one lying. After all, I do know a few things about historical research since I am a Professor of History and Political Science. I also have collected several hundred hours of Watergate tapes and other documents that relate to the Vietnam conflict. If you disagree with me, at least be open minded and be able to discuss your disagreement without personally insulting me. Anyway, I again thank you vetrans for puting this important site together!

Me#1You#10 · Site Admin Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 6503

White...he was addressing mikest...adjust your fire Confused

sparky · Former Member Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 546

Go get 'em, Whitecleats! Grrrrrrr, show that military can-do spirit as you rip a new one for your fellow conservative.

Nixon will be remembered as the guy who got Calley off the hook after only three years. Comrades in arms honor that kind of loyalty.

whitecleats · Seaman Recruit Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 10

According to John Kerry, he and most Vietnam soldiers were committing war attrocities. So, if you condemn Calley then how can you support Kerry? Your entire statement is hypocritical just like the media's treatment of Nixon and Kerry. If Nixon does it, it is because he is "evil." If Kerry does it, it was just an overexaggeration. I think many of you need to take a look at the validity of your own arguments before you start making claims that the military honors My Lai. In fact, it was the military that intervened and stopped the massacre and was hardly reflective of the majority of the soldiers who served honorably.

sparky · Former Member Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 546

But in that same sentence, Kerry described those "atrocities" as routine, commonplace and pervasive practices such as:

o Shootings in free fire zones.
o Harassment and interdiction fire.
o Using 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people.
o Search and destroy missions
o Burning of villages.

They were under orders from the top to do those things. In time, Kerry concluded that he hadn't committed atrocities when he and nearly everyone in the war zones did those five things. Calley went much further, however.

I can understand that, as a conservative, you would like to smear Kerry by linking his actions in the above list with those of Calley. But it's clear that Kerry hadn't filled corpses in mass graves and ordered the slaughter of over 500 innocent civilians including small children who were first raped.

Do even you believe those five items are "war crimes" white cleats? If so then you're acknowledging that "war crimes" were pervasive, commonplace and ordered by Admiral Zumwalt at the top down to Kerry's commanders at the bottom and that almost everyone who served in a war zone in Vietnam was a "war criminal"

hist/student · Lieutenant Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 243

unabashed comprehensive retraction

NecAsperaTerra · Guest

After reading these weak, lame, and pathetic attempts to disparage an honorable man for none other than political purposes, I have come to believe my Vietnam veteran spouse was right when he said: "The ones who are saying these things and who are so "upset" and "offended" are the ones who took part in the village burnings, ear cuttings, and nose slicings. They know it, their comrades know it, and their commanding officers know it. They just can't get over the guilt. Just let them rant. Americans are smarter than to listen to them."

Ah, I do so enjoy a rant every now and again. Wink

whitecleats · Seaman Recruit Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 10

Sparky,

First off, do not call me a Conservative. I am a Democrat and I voted for Clinton in 1996. Secondly, I am not justifying Kerry or Calley but I am simply asking you why you are so hypocritical and defensive? Jimmy Carter fought to get Calley pardoned and I certainly would not call him a conservative. If Calley deserved to serve life in prison or not is out of my hands and I am glad that I did not have to make that difficult decision of pardoning him. But, I guess you have a monopoly on knowledge and whatever you say is absolutely right and anyone who disagrees with you is a 'stupid conservative who is trying to smear the flawless and heroic John Kerry.'

sparky · Former Member Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 546

Calley was pardoned by Nixon *before* Carter became president.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/myl_bcalleyhtml.htm

http://www.vietnam-war.info/history/history4.php

Greenhat · LCDR Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 405

Sparky,

Seems you need to work on your English comprehension skills. WhiteCleats didn't say Carter pardoned Calley, he said Carter fought to get Calley pardoned.
_________________
De Oppresso Liber

whitecleats · Seaman Recruit Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 10

Sparky,

As Greenhat has pointed out to you, I never said Carter pardoned Calley. When Nixon pardoned Calley, Carter was Governor of Georgia and his constituents were supporting a pardon of Calley. Thus, Jimmy Carter began to fight to get Calley pardoned (and he also was anti-integration). Now why don't you go look that up on the internet and see if you can learn a thing or two about history. But, I guess I cannot expect anthing less of you diehard Kerry advocates. You are just like your 'flawless' leader: always preaching in a self-rightous and hypocritical manner, rewording the questions, and then smearing your opponent as a 'conservative.' Just because I am a Democrat does not mean that I follow my party like blind sheep. Where have the JFK's and Harry Truman's gone? Put Machiavelli, LBJ, and George McGovern together and the end result is John Kerry: the most dangerous man in America!