SwiftVets.com

[The bandit]

If you don't know who Joe Bangert is, he is a close friend and supporter of Kerry. He is also the organizer for Vets for Kerry. In a nutshell, he is another discredited Al Hubbard, whom hangs out with Kerry on his campaigns and campaigns on Kerry's behalf to Vets. Here he is behind Teresa:



Here some of Bangert's Winter Soilder testimony:

BANGERT. My name is Joe Bangert. I'm a Philadelphia resident. I enlisted in the Marine Corps for four years in 1967. I went to Vietnam in 1968. My unit in Vietnam was Marine Observation Squadron Six with the First Marine Air Wing and my testimony will cover the slaughter of civilians, the skinning of a Vietnamese woman, the type of observing our squadron did in Vietnam and the crucifixion of Vietnamese either suspects or civilians in Vietnam.

MODERATOR. Mr. Bangert, there's an incident here where you found crucified bodies hanging on barbed wire fences and in the same incident you witnessed South Vietnamese civilians shot without provocation on Highway 1. Could you go into this and kind of see how they are related?

BANGERT. I can cover a couple of these at the same time. The first day I got to Vietnam I landed in Da Nang Air Base. From Da Nang Air Base I took a plane to Dong Ha. I got off the plane and hitchhiked on Highway 1 to my unit. I was picked up by a truckload of grunt Marines with two company grade officers, 1st Lts.; we were about 5 miles down the road, where there were some Vietnamese children at the gateway of the village and they gave the old finger gesture at us. It was understandable that they picked this up from the GIs there. They stopped the trucks--they didn't stop the truck, they slowed down a little bit, and it was just like response, the guys got up, including the lieutenants, and just blew all the kids away. There were about five or six kids blown away
and then the truck just continued down the hill. That was my first day in Vietnam. As far as the crucified bodies, they weren't actually crucified with nails, but they would find VCs or something (I never got the story on them) but, anyway, they were human beings, obviously dead, and they would take them and string them out on fences, on barbed wire fences, stripped, and sometimes they would take flesh wounds, take a knife and cut the body all over the place to make it bleed, and look gory as a reminder to the people in the village.

Here is a pretty good rebuttal of Bangert:

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A lot of the Winter Soldier testimony is made up, you know. I think a lot of vets were sick of the war. They received no acclaim for serving, but suddenly got stature from both being "disturbed and traumatized" by the war. Suddenly they got their 15 minutes of fame by laying bare their souls about war crimes.

I have frequently heard people claiming to be Marine Vets talk about the awful times they had in "the Nam". They usually claim to be Marines, and go at length about the atrocities they were engaged in. I usually ask them what unit they served in, and they will make up some number that is not in the Marine Corps. They won't know what bases they operated out of. So only believe about 1% of what you hear.

A typical example of an individual who is slinging BS big time is this guy Bangert from the Winter Soldier Investigation. Here's a summary of what he told the Winter Soldier "Investigation":

Joe Bangert enlists in 1968, and serves in VMO-6, an aviation unit that flies very small observation planes. Banger does not state his MOS (Military Occupational Specialty), but almost all the enlisted men in these units were maintenance types - fix airplanes, attach bombs, fix radios, etc. They usually did not fly, and they saw very little combat.

Bangert says he sees a truck load of Marines murder a bunch of children on his first day with two officers present. Then he sees bodies "crucified" on perimeter wire, apparently cut up with knives and hung on the wire. Then he has a friend who is CIA who takes him somewhere, murders a woman with twenty shots, then cuts open her ******, takes out her organs and skins her. The perpetrator was a former military officer, and two other field grade officers knew about it.

Then Bangert works with the pacification program in Vietnam, and travels extensively through Quang Tri Province. He sees approximately twenty deformed infants under the age of one.

Bangert sees journalists, specifically women journalists who were readily welcomed into the unit. There was always this whitewashing thing. Well, sometimes these people would go right past the bodies and come into our base to get a story. They were kept away from the enlisted men, away from the people who were involved. The typical thing was to take them down to the Officers Club, get them soused.

Elsewhere in his testimony, Bangert claims to be a door gunner with two helo units.

Anybody who believes these tall tales is awfully gullible. Bangert worked for a light observation squadron - very little combat. The men worked like coolies, often 16 hours a day 7 days a week, servicing planes, refueling, rearming, preparing, cleaning, maintaining. Usually they did not fly. They did not get to wander off on secret CIA missions. They did not participate in the CAP program - these were separate small units who lived permanently in villages, protecting the villages from the VC. They did not get to wander around Quang Tri looking at deformed kids. He states on his first day he sees a bunch of kids murdered on Route 1 -- this the main thoroughfare through the area, not some remote area. Can you imagine the press coverage? He says the press saw the crucified bodies, but were wooed with booze and did not report on this. Come on, get real.

So how much is the rest fabricated? Some no doubt is true. When a story is limited, it is more credible. But a lot of it is people telling tales, pathological liars and just plain liars. Bangert leads a rich fantasy llfe suitable for Stephen King.
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My granny used to say you can judge anyones character by the characters they keep as company.

[jalexson]

Shooting kids on Highway 1 and it was never exposed. That sounds highly unlikely. Even around LZ English(Central Highlands - Binh Dinh province) there was enough traffic that someone would have seen the bodies and asked questions later.
_________________
"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain

[The bandit]

Another interesting exchange was this:

MODERATOR. Okay, there were American officers present when this happened or...

BANGERT. There were two super-secret. I know they were field grade officers, who were with MACV in Quang Tri Province in the area. They knew about it.

Well, so much for super-secrets since this E-5 drinking mechanic knew all about em

You can see why Kerry and liberals just LUV Joe.....

[War Dog]

Plus he said he had to 'hitchhike' to his unit? Now where did you ever hear of a lone 'marine' on his first day, having to make his way alone 'hitchiking' on Hwy 1 to his unit? Never happened! Everything about this guy's testimony is pure wannabee!

Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.

When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit."

[ASPB]

Dog,

Actually, I almost had to do the same thing when I arrived at Ton Son Nhut in Nov of '68. There were 6 or 7 of us arriving and transportation to the Annapolis hotel in Cholon (a neighborhood in Saigon) was late arriving.

As the Senior NCO in the group I was arranging for civilian cabs for us when the bus finally showed up 1 1/2 hours late.

**** happens!.... but he's still a friggin lying political harlot!
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[LewWaters]

As a "newbie" having to hitchhike to his unit, how did he know in which direction to hitchhike? When I first arrived in country, I was always with a small group from Long Bin to Nha Trang, to Pleiku and finally to An Son. We were moved by helicopter, and often, our "greeter" was late, but we sat and waited too, not having a clue where to go.

[War Dog]

There is just too much about this guy's testimony that doesn't ring true to me. But then again, what the hell do I know!

Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.

When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit."

[jalexson]

"The first day I got to Vietnam I landed in Da Nang Air Base. From Da Nang Air Base I took a plane to Dong Ha. I got off the plane and hitchhiked on Highway 1 to my unit."

Must have had a much faster way of processing than the army did in May, 1969. I spent an entire day at Long Binh after arriving about 2 A.M. at Bien Hoa and being put on the bus with the others on the plane. It was the next morning before I got my orders and was put on a plane for An Khe with several others going to the 173rd. We left our records there and were flown to Phu Cat AFB to be taken to the Brigade jungle school. I was taken to my specific unit the 45th APU(Army Postal Unit) after jungle school.

There was no way I could have hitchhiked to my unit which moved from An Khe to Camp Fidel south of Phu Cat while I was in jungle school.

I doubt that he could have processed out to his unit the same day he arrived. It must have been a very small base if he was the only one going there particularly considering that in 1968 there were more going in than were leaving healthy.

.
_________________
"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain

[DougReese]

[The bandit]

[DougReese]

[waltjones]

So, Doug, let me get this straight:

- You say Joe Bangert is "universally despised". Do you mean the way most of us 'Nam vets despise Kerry?
- You say Kerry allowed this piece of slime to be close to him in his '84 campaign, and apparently - although not "hanging out" with him - Kerry is allowing him to take part in this campaign also. Do you think that's OK?
- Joe Bangert was effectively "certified" by John F'ng Kerry in 1971; he represented the liar's testimony as fact before the United States Senate. Is that OK with you too?
- If you think the way you do about Joe Bangert, and Kerry has never questioned his slander (nor his own) and still allows such a dirtbag to participate in his campaign, how in the HELL could you ever vote for John Kerry???

Forgive me, Doug, but I really don't understand. I've valued your calmness and objectivity on this board, but - while you seem to admit that at least some of what Kerry said is slander - I just don't get how you can support a man for CIC who doesn't even try to make amends for promoting people like Bangert. Perhaps you will be the first 'Nam vet who can explain how they can vote for a man who slandered and damaged his comrades-in-arms; can you do that for me, and others? Maybe then at least some of the hatred could dissipate.

Kerry is extremely fortunate to have the alphabet media not cover Joe's story. Their reasons are obvious: they don't want Bush re-elected, and they will pick and choose what stories to run, just like they didn't cover the Swift Boat Vets story. So what's your excuse?

Semper Fi!
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor.

[The bandit]

[Me#1You#10]

I'm surprised that he doesn't close with a chorus or two from his wonderful rendition of the "Ho-Ho-Ho-Chi Minh" ballad.

Have you folks had the pleasure of his rendition yet?

I, for one, was unacquainted with this gentleman until I was introduced to his name in this forum. Does anyone have a list of links put together as a good primer on Mr. Bangert?

[DougReese]