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Jan
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:10 am Post subject: Conscientious Objector? |
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From the text of the O'Neill/Kerry debate, 06/71:
"The fact of the matter remains that after I received my third wound, I was told that I could return to the United States. I deliberated for about two weeks because there was a very difficult decision in whether or not you leave your friends because you have an opportunity to go, but I finally made the decision to go back and did leave of my own volition because I felt that I could do more against the war back here. And when I got back here, I was serving as an aide to an admiral in New York City, and I wrote a letter through him requesting that I be released from the Navy early because of my opposition, and I was granted that release, and I have been working against the war ever since then."
Would it have been possible for Kerry to obtain a discharge as a conscientious objector? |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Would it have been possible for Kerry to obtain a discharge as a conscientious objector? |
Uh, with a Silver Star and BSM(V) that would be real hard to pull off convincingly. And a "separation" is NOT a "discharge". Two different things entirely. And "release" almost always refers to a "release from Active Duty", not a discharge.
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USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
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Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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2ndamendsis
PO3
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 288
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:36 am Post subject: |
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It's interesting that you brought that up.
I've often wondered why he didn't declare "CO" in the first place.
That tells me that he had plans formulating somewhere in that
deceitful brain of his. That's something that's always bugged me.
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mom of Sailor - Gulf 1
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Tacan70UDN
PO2
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:38 am Post subject: |
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It should be pointed out that there were legitimate conscientous objectors who served honorably, indeed extremely bravely, in Viet Nam. A number of COs were combat medics and put themselves at grave risk trying to save and attend to frontline wounded. I don't know myself if any paid the ultimate price. I do know that some chaplains were killed in action. Other legitimate COs stood up before a court for their beliefs and did so honorably. Other people who were honestly against the war protested peacefully and within the law and did not malign those serving in the military. I have no problem with any of the above; in fact, I salute them for their honor and respect their integrity.
However, I can't stand the Traitor's mewing about being a conscientious objector, or how he knew the only truth, blah, blah, blah ad nauseum. The Traitor was only out for one thing, and one thing only, and that was the promotion of his own political goals. The culmination of all that scheming is immediately in front of us, and we absolutely have to deny him his ultimate prize! |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Anyone, how long did lurch stay after his third PH? I looked but can't
find it.  He didn't stay two weeks longer, did he?  Thanks!
"I deliberated for about two weeks because there was a very difficult decision in whether or not you leave your friends because you have an opportunity to go, but I finally made the decision to go back and did leave of my own volition because I felt that I could do more against the war back here". |
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Tacan70UDN
PO2
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Tanya wrote: | Anyone, how long did lurch stay after his third PH? I looked but can't
find it. He didn't stay two weeks longer, did he? Thanks!
"I deliberated for about two weeks because there was a very difficult decision in whether or not you leave your friends because you have an opportunity to go, but I finally made the decision to go back and did leave of my own volition because I felt that I could do more against the war back here". |
I'm pretty sure it was only about 3 days, but I can't find it right now. I'll check UFC. |
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Hondo
LCDR
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:45 am Post subject: Re: Conscientious Objector? |
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| Jan wrote: | | Would it have been possible for Kerry to obtain a discharge as a conscientious objector? |
Uh, no.
Conscientious objector status requires renunciation of ALL war - not just a particular conflict - as immoral, and convincing one's military service of that conviction.
Conscientions objectors are not automatically excluded from military serive. They may indeed serve in non-arms-bearing roles, such as medic and/or chaplain. At least one has been awarded the Medal of Honor - PFC Desmond Doss, US Army, World War II, during combat on Okinnawa in May 1945. The citation accompanying his Medal of Honor may be found at http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_living/ii_a_doss.html.
Kerry would have trouble convincing his own dog he had renounced even the Vietnam conflict - much less all war - as immoral. He voluntarily requested transfer to Swiftboat duty in Vietnam and willingly participated in the Vietnam conflict. He personally participated in combat multiple times, receiving (at least in theory) 3 Purple Hearts and 2 decorations for valor.
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill
Last edited by Hondo on Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:07 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Tacan70UDN
PO2
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:45 am Post subject: |
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UFC page 94
"Kerry was 'wounded' on March 13, 1969, on the Bay Hap River, but by March 17, 1969, at 7:42 a.m., his equest for reassignment to the United States (having been typed up far away in An Thoi and signed by the commander there) was at the Navy Department in Washington." |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you Tacan70UDN! |
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Jan
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:45 am Post subject: |
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"Less than an hour after his Inauguration, Mr. Carter signed Executive Order 4483 empowering a general amnesty for draft dodgers and other war protesters. It was expanded in March 1977 to include other offenders who may have had general, bad conduct, dishonorable discharges, and any other discharge or sentence with negative effect on military records. In those cases the directive outlined a procedure for appeal on a case by case basis before a board of officers. A satisfactory appeal would result in an improvement of discharge status or an honorable discharge."
What date appears on Kerry's discharge?....1978?
It makes you think, doesn't it? |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:50 am Post subject: |
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So much for his deliberating for two weeks out of concern for his TRUE BROTHERS. Kut himself and Run Kerry  Just another lie out of thousands. |
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Tom Poole
Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 914
Location: America
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Humpty Dumpty or Silky Pony wrote: | | ...deliberated for about two weeks...leave your friends...did leave of my own volition... |
I've read this in several other places and it seems to me, he made up his mind and left immediately (lie #1). Further, if my memory serves, they found him despicable and were sick and tired of his lack of judgement and his whining about the combat (lie #2). Finally, he left because the other officers with whom he served, asked him to go (lie #3). Balderdash & poppycock! This was just another lame attempt to rewrite history to further his political career. Frightening is the fact that he almost got away with it. Even though it's now exposed, it remains to be seen if it worked for him.
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Last edited by Tom Poole on Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:51 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry Jan, I didn't mean to cut into your thread. 
Thanks Tom |
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grumpyBB
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 117
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| Jan wrote: | What date appears on Kerry's discharge?....1978?
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Which time?  According to documents released so far there's 4 dates: January 3, 1970, February 16, 1978, July 13, 1978, and March 12, 2001. I assume the Feb 16th, 1978 would be the most relevant. |
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jwb7605
Rear Admiral
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 690
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| grumpyBB wrote: | | Jan wrote: | What date appears on Kerry's discharge?....1978?
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Which time? According to documents released so far there's 4 dates: January 3, 1970, February 16, 1978, July 13, 1978, and March 12, 2001. I assume the Feb 16th, 1978 would be the most relevant. |
4 flip-flops on one discharge?  |
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