 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jwb7605
Rear Admiral
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 690
Location: Colorado
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:47 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| grumpyBB wrote: | | jwb7605 wrote: | | Hondo wrote: | jwb7605:
Your proposal is a good start, but is not sufficient. Kerry in fact provided copies of all of his DD214s.
|
I must have missed something. All I could find was the DD-215.
That's the one that says the 214 has been "modified" on his website.
Got a link to the 214? |
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf |
I'm not trying to start anything, grumpy (I've got a DisneyLand "grumpy" jacket  ), but that can't be right. On my DD-214, "decorations, medals, badges, commendations, citations and campaign ribbons awarded or authorized" are as follow:
NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE MEDAL - VIETNAM SERVICE MEDAL - REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM CAMPAIGN MEDAL w/DEVICE (1960- ) - REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM MERITORIUS UNIT COMMENDATION (GALLANTRY CROSS) - ARMED FORCES EXPEDITIIONARY MEDAL (KOREA) - NAVY UNIT COMMENDATION - MERITORIOUS UNIT COMMENDATION - GOOD CONDUCT MEDAL (FIRST AWARD)
Kerry's section: AWARDED NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE MEDAL (NOT RECEIVED)
If I remember right, Kerry claims a bronze star, silver star, and three purple hearts in addition to the vietnam service medal and republic of vietnam campaign medal.
In addition, the REMARKS say "CONTINUING ON ACTIVE DUTY AS ENSIGN, USNR"
He either got reduced in rank, or it's not the discharge form DD-214.
There's a section on mine (11a) labelled "type of transfer or discharge", which clearly states RELEASE FROM ACTIVE DUTY AND TRANSFER TO NAVAL RESERVE as well as section 13a, "character of service", which reads HONORABLE. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jwb7605
Rear Admiral
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 690
Location: Colorado
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
My browser goofed up, and page 2 didn't load.
Combat "V" on the stars eh? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
This has been discussed. I tried to find the thread, but the SQL on the Search is fubared, so I can't pull it up. It should be in R&R.
Basically, he got THAT DD-214 for transferring out of the reserves and into active duty.
I have several DD-214s myself, because I was in three different branches of the service. It CAN happen, regardless of what Buzz said in his article.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jwb7605
Rear Admiral
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 690
Location: Colorado
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cipher wrote: | This has been discussed. I tried to find the thread, but the SQL on the Search is fubared, so I can't pull it up. It should be in R&R.
Basically, he got THAT DD-214 for transferring out of the reserves and into active duty.
I have several DD-214s myself, because I was in three different branches of the service. It CAN happen, regardless of what Buzz said in his article. |
You're either a masochist or a hero.
ONE DD-214 was all I could take!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | You're either a masochist or a hero. |
Actually, neither. In my 8 years of active duty, I was in full time extremely technical schools for 108 weeks, NOT including grunt training. I "gamed" the system so I could go to school and get paid for it. Eventually, I worked off my obligations as a defense contractor, which was even more fun, but that's a different story....
Regarding Kerry's DD-214s, they cover the period up until his separation from active duty. There are ... anomalies in the DD-214 of interest, but they've all been discussed to death and some has even made the print media (the SS with "V" for example). No traction, because it's too esoteric. The Navy IG *REFUSED* to investigate the anomalies. Case closed (so far, there is litigration ongoing)
The sticking point is the Honorable Discharge certificate. There is NO record of it, since it is not an "accountable document". It's just a piece of paper to hang on the wall, the military does not keep a copy of it. The DD-214 is the "GOD" document. That is the one we need. The ORIGINAL final separation document that gives the disposition of his discharge.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJB
LCDR
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 425
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:14 am Post subject: Re: Thanks |
|
|
| searly wrote: | | What can we do to insure this is not dismissed as the ranting of a "right-wing rag"? |
While we are in a holding pattern for now, I’d like to take a minute to help set the stage for this weekend/Monday (apologies to those who have seen this several times, and welcome to our new viewers) for the Pajamahadeen out there –
Since we got news of the documented link between John Kerry, the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the communist North Vietnamese government early this week, I’ve been encouraging readers of this board to CALL THEIR SENATORS, among others.
My sister used to work for a couple of congressmen on Capitol Hill. Every Representative and Senator has a process in place to receive and process constituent phone calls.
KEY POINT: For every ONE phone call they get, staffers and the congressmen assume that anywhere from 10-100 other people feel the same way, but don’t take the time to call. Sooo…since so few people actually call, in proportion to the population at large, EACH phone call can be vitally important.
I believe it would be fair to say that our calls helped Sen Majority Leader Bill Frist get in touch with NavyChief…correct me if I’m wrong, NC.
Email is not as effective, since their in-boxes are overflowing right now. Plus, phone calls have that personal touch….
GUIDELINES:
Be polite, be specific, be as factual as possible.
Use the links and posts on the board to muster your collection of facts and information.
DO NOT share scripts between each other – they can smell ‘em a mile off and it greatly diminishes the impact of what you’re trying to do. This is personal….
DON’T expect to get a call back – that’s not what this is about. This is about pushing for them to TAKE ACTION! We want our voices to be heard in a collective fashion, versus having them try to keep track to who to call about what issues.
DON’T expect to change minds when you call the Democratic offices. Again, that’s not the purpose (although I’d love to be a fly on the wall if any of the Democratic staffers actually go to the web sites and read the evidence…). Our purpose is to get ACTION, and numbers is one way to get this issue over the “Tipping Point” (see: Malcolm Gladwell’s book, The Tipping Point). Once it tips, the tides rush in. We need to help make the tip happen….
WHY SENATORS?
The United States Congress is one the biggest ‘Ole Boys Network around. John Kerry has been part of that club for 20 years. You can bet that many, many people do not want to get involved in anything related to our mission.
They want it to GO AWAY. They want to stall, and dance, and twist, and avoid touching this. THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. They won’t rat out a fellow Senator unless extreme pressure is applied.
However...power abhors a vaccum....if they're going to kick 'em, they'll kick him when he's on his way down. Pile it on when it's safe.... The timing of this might be pretty good....
WE ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS. THE SENATE (and the House of Representatives) WORKS FOR US. ONE OF THEIR OWN HAS BEEN FOUND OUT. WE WANT THEM TO TAKE ACTION INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY. They will each be up for election one day – and the Pajamahadeen has loooong memories.
The Senate is the Big League (House members might disagree with me, but Senators get better offices!) – when they speak, the media tends to listen pretty well.
Your MARCHING ORDERS:
CALL BOTH OF YOUR STATE'S SENATORS. Republican, Democrat – doesn’t matter. You’re not debating them, you’re DEMANDING THEY TAKE ACTION on this issue.
CALL BOTH THEIR WASHINGTON D.C. OFFICES AND THEIR LOCAL CONGRESSIONAL OFFICES.
USE THIS WEB SITE TO FIND BOTH NUMBERS: http://congress.org/congressorg/home/
Congress is not in session, so don't expect them to be in Washington, D.C. They may very well be in their home districts or even in their local offices. Call both.
CALL SENATE MAJORITY LEADER (leader of the GOP's in the Senate) BILL FRIST (again. Keep up the pressure).
CALL BOTH HIS D.C. AND LOCAL TENNASSEE OFFICE:
202-224-3344
615-352-9411
THEN, CALL THE SENATE WHIP (#2 GOP man in the Senate) MITCH MCCONNELL - BOTH OFFICES
202-224-2541
502-582-6304
THEN, CALL THE WHITE HOUSE AND REGISTER YOUR DEEP CONCERN over this issue. Let the President and his team know we’re out here and we’re ANGRY.
202-456-1414
THEN, CALL SEN JOHN WARNER'S OFFICE
202-224-2023
804-739-0247
Why does John Kerry have a medal citation signed by you when he did not win the medal while you were Secretary of the Navy?
For good measure, if you're still in the mood to be feisty -
CALL SEN TED STEVEN'S (Senate President Pro Tempore - oversees the Senate when the VP isn't available) OFFICE
202-224-3004
907-271-5915
These are the key leaders in the Senate.
WE ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS, MANY OF US VETERANS, WHO WANT ANSWERS. WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF PERSON JOHN KERRY IS AND WHAT HE'S HIDING. WE ARE ANGRY AND WE WANT ACCOUNTABILITY FROM OUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES.
Once you’ve done this FIRST, on to emailing talk radio, major media, etc.
_________________
MJB
USAF '85-'92 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Why does John Kerry have a medal citation signed by you when he did not win the medal while you were Secretary of the Navy? |
Hold that thought. WHICH medal citation is signed by WARNER? I do NOT recall seeing ANY. Can you link me, please?
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
air_vet
PO2
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 374
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:38 am Post subject: What we need |
|
|
| cipher wrote: | | The DD-214 is the "GOD" document. That is the one we need. The ORIGINAL final separation document that gives the disposition of his discharge. |
As an officer Kerry would have received only TWO DD-214s - one after completing OCS (and leaving the enlisted status of an OCS cadet) - he got a honorable discharge - and the second after leaving Extended Active Duty (EAD). No discharge certificate was issued at this time because he was still an officer in the Navy Reserve.
At some point Kerry's commission was resigned/revoked and some form of transmittal letter (NOT a DD-214) would have accompanied the certificate (of unknown type) at that time. This transmital letter would/should have been a document that went into his permanent file and is the "smoking gun" we need.
Somewhere there is someone who processed this document. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
igor
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 81
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
This was originally available from C-Span at rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04interview_kerry1971.rm , however it is not available anymore. Here is a small 22kb Flash version http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=dishonorabedischarge.swf ...
| Quote: | 1971 Interview with John Kerry on His Medals & War Protests and his book "The New Soldier".
A November 6, 1971 interview with John Kerry on protesting the war in Vietnam. The interview took place on the television program "Viewpoints" on WRC-TV in Washington, DC.<BR> WASHINGTON, DC: 10 min.
At 2:55 - 3:00 into the interview...
Interviewer: Was there ever any question of you getting dishonourably discharged?
Kerry: Oh no, no, that has never been questioned. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Might that be because he had not been discharged as yet?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| drjohn wrote: | | Might that be because he had not been discharged as yet? |
You got that right!
- Chief
_________________
Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Citizen for Truth
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Wisconsin
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I've been watching this and the Hanoi link since you guys started it. It's been great, and Navy Chief, words can't express my thanks. I've been emailing and calling every time new info comes up here. Hope we can get a major network to report it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arymann
PO3
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 269
Location: GA
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Interviewer: Was there ever any question of you getting dishonourably discharged?
Kerry: Oh no, no, that has never been questioned. |
Note guys. This is "Clintonesque"--He didn't say he had not been dishonorably discharged, he said "that has never been questioned." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ord33
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 670
Location: Ohio
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| arymann wrote: | | Quote: | Interviewer: Was there ever any question of you getting dishonourably discharged?
Kerry: Oh no, no, that has never been questioned. |
Note guys. This is "Clintonesque"--He didn't say he had not been dishonorably discharged, he said "that has never been questioned." |
Arymann,
Check the post two above yours, I think NavyChief has a good explanation of why he answered the question in this manner! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
firewoodtim
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 11
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:37 pm Post subject: Does this rally have legs? |
|
|
Excuse what may seem heresy in this very excited thread, but I still do not understand the point of the DC rally. Is there any evidence (postable or not) that the Kerry discharge story is breaking today or will ever break, for that matter? We are already well into the day, and there have been no morning newpapers carrying the story. No blogs that I have seen have done more than reference what is already posted here. We have a great deal of excitement, but unless there is something objective and proveable, other than the already oft-told stories of this campaign, to get excited about, I do not understand why anyone would go to DC.
I want to go, and I assume many others want to do the same, but will someone please calm down enough to provide enough information in one place to motivate a trek to DC? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
