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carpro Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 1176 Location: Texas
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Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:28 am Post subject: |
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Geez! Let's quote Michael Moore some more!! He is SUCH a great American!
He's not even from Flint, MI. like he says. _________________ "If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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GoophyDog PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 480 Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Well, since tigerflyboy has neglected to respond I do believe ladies and gentlemen, that we have been well and truely trolled.
Such a waste of an outstanding breeding ground for mad cow desease. |
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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:00 am Post subject: |
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GoophyDog wrote: | Well, since tigerflyboy has neglected to respond I do believe ladies and gentlemen, that we have been well and truely trolled.
Such a waste of an outstanding breeding ground for mad cow desease. |
Patience!
I fear he, like most of our trolls, will return! _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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LewWaters Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 4042 Location: Washington State
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Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I fear he, like most of our trolls, will return! |
Sadly, this is so. Like all trolls, when faced with true facts, they run and hide out while they regroup only to return later with a fresh pack of nonsense. If their first bag of fertilizer doesn't wash, they just go refill it and return to spread it, hoping that their view becomes accepted sooner or later. Never mind facts and truth, they mean nothing, only their view and liberal agenda.
All too often, facts really confuse them. |
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nakona Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 242
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Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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He probably ran back to D.U. and complained that he needs help, so we can expect some new members in the next few days. _________________ 13F20P |
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LewWaters Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 4042 Location: Washington State
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Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | we can expect some new members in the next few days. |
I suspect as the election gets closer, we will see more and more of them. This site has is being watched and has some notoriety. Their only goal is to defeat Bush any way they can. Truth means nothing, just get rid of Bush.
We can keep defeating them with facts and truth. Just thinking of the words "President" John "F"in Kerry turns my stomach. |
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jalexson PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 272 Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:08 am Post subject: Don't believe movies |
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As an historian, I learned long ago to never accept anything in a movie supposedly based on real people at face value. Movie directors commonly make up things for dramatic impact. _________________ "That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
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Doc Jerry Commander
Joined: 28 May 2004 Posts: 339
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:04 am Post subject: Michael Moore |
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Nakona:
Great response to Tigerbaby. Nice job.
Someone asked for more quotes from Moore:
"You're stuck with being connected to this country of mine, which is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe." From the Museum of Left Wing Lunacy.
From the NY Post on Friday, July 2, 2004. The cartoon on page six shows Saddam sitting in front of the judge. The bubble above Saddam's head reads: "The defense would like to call a character witness." Saddam is pointing his finger to the back of the courtroom. Standing in the back of the courtroom is none other than: Michael Moore. |
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LewWaters Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 4042 Location: Washington State
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Seems our little "flag waver" wrote an op-ed piece for the LA Times today. Reading and hearing what he has to say not only sickens me, it appalls me that he wishes to now wrap himself in the very flag he spews so much hatred for overseas;
Quote: | The Patriots Act
What's more American than asking questions?
By Michael Moore
Michael Moore's latest documentary film is "Fahrenheit 9/11."
July 4, 2004
NEW YORK — As a young boy, I loved the American flag. I'd lead my younger sisters in patriotic parades up and down the sidewalk, waving the flag, blowing a whistle and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance over and over until my sisters begged me to let them go back to their Easy-Bake Oven.
I loved singing the national anthem. I won an essay contest on "What the Flag Means to Me." I decorated my bicycle with little American flags for a Fourth of July parade and won a prize for that too. I became an Eagle Scout and proudly promised to do my duty to God and country. And every year I asked to be the one who planted the flag on the grave of my uncle, a paratrooper who was killed in World War II. I was taught to admire his sacrifice, and I hoped to grow up and do my part, as he had, to keep us free.
But, in high school, things changed. Nine boys from my school came back home from Vietnam in boxes. Draped over each coffin was the American flag. I knew that they also had made a sacrifice. But their sacrifice wasn't for their country: They were sent to die by men who lied to them. Those men — presidents, senators, government officials — wrapped themselves in the flag too, hoping that their lies would never be questioned, never be discovered. They wrapped themselves in the very flag that was placed on the coffins of my friends and neighbors. I stopped singing the national anthem at football games, and I stopped putting out the flag.
I realize now I never should have stopped.
For too long now we have abandoned our flag to those who see it as a symbol of war and dominance, as a way to crush dissent at home. Flags are flying from the back of SUVs, rising high above car dealerships, plastering the windows of businesses and adorning paper bags from fast-food restaurants. But these flags are intended to send a message: "You're either with us or you're against us," "Bring it on!" or "Watch what you say, watch what you do."
Those who absconded with our flag now use it as a weapon against those who question America's course. They remind me of that famous 1976 photo of an anti-busing demonstrator in Boston thrusting a large American flag on a pole into the stomach of the first black man he encountered. These so-called patriots hold the flag tightly in their grip and, in a threatening pose, demand that no one ask questions. Those who speak out find themselves shunned at work, harassed at school, booed off Oscar stages. The flag has become a muzzle, a piece of cloth stuffed into the mouths of those who dare to ask questions. (would that be like actors who support Bush not getting any more parts?)
I think it's time for those of us who love this country — and everything it should stand for — to reclaim our flag from those who would use it to crush rights and freedoms, both here at home and overseas. We need to redefine what it means to be a proud American.
If you are one of those who love what President Bush has done for this country and believe you must blindly follow the president to deserve to fly the flag, you should ask yourself some difficult questions about just how proud you are of the America we now inhabit:
Are you proud that one in six children lives in poverty in America?
Are you proud that 40 million adult Americans are functional illiterates?
Are you proud that the bulk of the jobs being created these days are low- and minimum-wage jobs?
Are you proud of asking your fellow Americans to live on $5.15 an hour?
Are you proud that, according to a National Geographic Society survey, 85% of young adult Americans cannot find Iraq on the map (and 11% cannot find the United States!)?
Are you proud that the rest of the world, which poured out its heart to us after Sept. 11, now looks at us with disdain and disgust?
Are you proud that nearly 3 billion people on this planet do not have access to clean drinking water when we have the resources and technology to remedy this immediately?
Are you proud of the fact that our president sent our soldiers off to a war that had nothing to do with the self-defense of this country?
If these things represent what it means to be an American these days — and I am an American — should I hang my head in shame? No. Instead, I intend to perform what I believe is my patriotic duty. I can't think of a more American thing to do than raise questions — and demand truthful answers — when our leader wants to send our sons and daughters off to die in a war.
If we don't do that — the bare minimum — for those who offer to defend our country, then we have failed them and ourselves. They offer to die for us, if necessary, so that we can be free. All they ask in return is that we never send them into harm's way unless it is absolutely necessary. And with this war, we have broken faith with our troops by sending them off to be killed and maimed for wrong and immoral reasons.
This is the true state of disgrace we are living in. I hope we can make it up someday to these brave kids (and older men and women in our reserves and National Guard). They deserve an apology, they deserve our thanks — and a raise — and they deserve a big parade with lots of flags.
I would like to lead that parade, carrying the largest flag. And I would like the country to proclaim that never again will a war be fought unless it is our last resort.
Let's create a world in which, when people see the Stars and Stripes, they will think of us as the people who brought peace to the world, who brought good-paying jobs to all citizens and clean water for the world to drink.
In anticipation of that day, I am putting my flag out today, with hope and with pride. |
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-moore4jul04,0,7448512.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
"THEIR" Flag? They burn it and spit on it and now want to wrap themselves in it, but to change what America has always stood for? He really must believe that Americans are the dumbest people on earth. The left keeps proving him correct. |
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George F. Thompson Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 80 Location: Fort Walton Beach, Fl 32547
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:21 pm Post subject: Disprove these facts. |
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Facts are unusual in they can be manipulated in that they may make a lie to appear as the truth or vice/versa. Look at the facts surrounding the contrversial chemical Dihydrogen Monoxide. www.dhmo.org/facts.html
After reading the " facts " about this allegedly, toxic harmful substance, the inital visceral reaction is to ban this filthy substance immediately. One can only wonder as to why our government hasn't done anything about this ubiquitous substance. After reading the "facts", for yourself, ask how any reasonable person not call for its immediate ban. The Democratic party knows that if they controlled the source of this chemical. They could easily control the world. If the Germans and Japanese had discovered the truth abuot this chemical and how to control its dispensation, it wouldn't be "good morning' but Guten tag or Kunichiwa ( Sp ). If you think I'm lying, look it up. |
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stupson Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 76 Location: new bern nc
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:47 pm Post subject: For some, FACTS are the enemy of "truth." |
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To LewWaters, WaltJones, Nakona and the others. GREAT JOB!
That is exactly what is needed to combat the sewage of bedwetters like this tigerflyboy joker. His type are long on bluster, short on critical analysis, and nonexistent on fact. Wonder where he got that from?
I have an identical battle going on here in my local paper's Letters to the Editor. Give the facts and they run like the cockroaches they are.
Rock on, my brothers! Stu
71st Trans Bn
RVN 1970 |
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Snipe Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 574 Location: Peoria, Illinois
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Er, War Dog, I think that George's link is demonizing water. The
dreaded H2O.
_________________ Tin Can Sailor |
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LewWaters Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 4042 Location: Washington State
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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I see George's post as an analogy of how things can be made to appear different than what they really are. In Moore's case, he has masterfully taken snippets and with some editing, makes it appear like Bush is some sort of demon, when if looked at truthfully, they are really nothing of concern.
I believe I put this link up last night on another thread, but here it is again anyway. Read all the manipulations and deceit Moore uses in the film.
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
Likewise, if we took what George has shown us and panicked, as some wish to do with F-911, we would rid ourselves of a basic sustenance of life. |
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nakona Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 242
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. George is pointing out a case where the use of satire illustrated how you can lie while telling the truth. _________________ 13F20P |
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Tony Lt.Jg.
Joined: 01 Jul 2004 Posts: 119 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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What an odd coincidence. I won the very same essay contest that Michael Moore mentions in his article. I was in 6th grade and it was sponsored by the local American Legion post. I wrote an essay on what the flag means to me.
I wrote about my parents, who are immigrants from Eastern Europe, and how they came to this country with nothing and were able to build a life for themselves. I wrote how that flag stood for freedom and opportunity and a way of life in which you can do anything you want to do if you put your mind to it (like go to Hollywood and become a big shot movie producer). I also wrote that I felt it was my duty to serve the country represented by this flag and a few years later (exactly 21 years ago today, in fact), I raised my right hand on the banks of the Severn River in Annapolis and swore an oath that I would defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Somehow, Michael Moore chose a different path. He makes an excuse of being influenced by Viet Nam - but I don't buy that for a moment. Although younger, I clearly remember some of the young men in the neighborhood going off to war in the early 70s and maybe it was just those of us in the working class suburbs of Cleveland - but I only remember people being supportive and respectful and I don't ever remember questioning why they did what they had to do. Maybe Michael Moore is really just a lost soul who never learned how to think for himself. Maybe he is really someone who feels guilty about how much he has and somehow he is trying to make up for the fact that he lives in a free and prosperous nation while others do not. Perhaps he loathes his very existence and won't be truly happy until he is no more.
But don't worry, Michael Moore - out here in the real world things are okay. We go to work, raise our kids and do the best we can. And if someone threatens us, we don't just sit around and talk about it over drinks at a trendy bar in Bel Air, we do something. We offer up ourselves and our children to take up arms we do what needs to be done. We do it because we love our flag and the country for which it stands as we both wrote essays about in the sixth grade. Most rational people out here in the real world (even in other countries) respect this and even admire this. It's just the way it is, and all the movies and all the lies you could ever produce won't change the simple truth that the way we live our lives is the exception, not the rule, and in order to maintain our way of life, often requires sacrifice. Something the Producer and Director of Fahrenheit 911 would never understand. _________________
http://tonyk.smugmug.com/photos/1822816-L-1.jpg
USN 1983-1992 |
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