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hiyall
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 81
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 Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:41 pm Post subject: debunk assistance please |
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A dear friend of mine and I have been exchanging correspondence as we have found ourselves diametrically opposed during this past Presidential cycle.
The following excerpt is one that I seek assistance with garnering the facts. Please reply to me either privately or on forum with relevant information. I take it that he is referring to the existence of Mr. O'Neil's meeting with then President Nixon. I am not familiar enough with the other part of my friend's claim of payments and I figure that it is some kind of internet/msm myth and attempt to discredit the swiftvets.
Thank you in advance for your assistance.
Here is the excerpt that I wish to shed light on:
"Heck, the guy who started swift boat "veterans for truth"
was
paid by republicans specifically to attack kerry 20 years ago when
kerry was
recognised by nixon as a direct threat. The same guy..."
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Marquis
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 129
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | "Heck, the guy who started swift boat "veterans for truth"
was
paid by republicans specifically to attack kerry 20 years ago when
kerry was
recognised by nixon as a direct threat. The same guy..." |
That is what's known as a DNC talking point. 
In other words, it's pure, unadulterated BS.
If this feckless friend of yours knew anything at all about the situation back then, s/he would recognize it for the lie that it is.
John O'Neill had one suit back then. He met Nixon only once, if I remember correctly. On that occasion, he actually blurted out that no, he wasn't a Nixon voter - his family had all voted for the other guy.
The group that O'Neill and the others were trying to start up to set the record straight and counter the Kerry-ites were desperate for venues - they weren't allowed to speak before the Senate Foreign Relations committee, as were John Kerry and his little rag-tag band of enemy sympathizers.
Nixon's administration arranged for this group, "Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace" to get some engagements and might POSSIBLY have paid some travelling expenses, but I'm not even sure on that point. It's more likely that John O'Neill paid his own way.
Patent BS, just like everything else the Kerry Kampf has put out.
Your friend should, today, be outraged that her party was so misled as to allow a former communist sympathizer and empty suited liar and traitor to get as far as he did in the campaign process. S/he should be asking the DNC what the hell went wrong with its vetting procedure, not going back and attacking the biggest source of TRUTH in this campaign on the flimsy and inaccurate information that John O'Neill was paid by Nixon.
Your friend has every right to be outraged, today. But his/her anger is completely misdirected.
Have her listen to Zell Miller's RNC speech - it's still on c-span.
It's not John O'Neill's fault that the DNC was able to pour out enough deceitful KookAde to get a third of the country up in arms in an "AnybodyButBush" anger. That the party was desperate, not for a good leader for our country, but for the candidate who had the best possibility of beating Bush.
Maybe s/he'll wake up soon and realize that s/he was had. And next time, maybe she'll get into the fight in time to get a worthy candidate onto the ticket.
I'm a Bush supporter, but I could have stood behind a "President Lieberman."
Maybe s/he'll figure out who s/he's really mad at in enough time to make a difference next time.
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Montana
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 138
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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I was going to reply, but Navy Navy Navy said it all.
Montana |
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army72
Seaman
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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These things are spread around so much that slowly they become 'truths'.
I had a brother-in-law call me last night to tell me that in Michigan, some lady punched in her vote for Kerry and the machine voted for Bush. He used that as evidence that Bush is cheating. I asked him the obvious questions about how many people did this and did a vote for Bush show up as a Kerry vote. He didn't know or care, he just stated that he had proof that Bush cheated again. I asked if Bush did this personally and he said that everyone knows the republicans control the voting machines have them rigged. Then he went on to say how many people were robbed of their vote in Florida in 2000. I asked for some kind of proof and the more I tried to get him to give proof, the more he went off into the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy theory. He had no proof and could offer nothing more than scuttlebutt so countered that everyone knew they cheated. There is no changing in his mind, he is certain and that is that. He was very angry and I could not help but laugh and tell him to dream up another theory and get back with me.
He could not even name any of the people that were involved..he didn't need to know anything like the truth or that you should at least give some proof when you offer these theories.
The next telling of his story will be to some kid that believes him and uses his story as proof to someone else. Hence the Urban Legend. If he had the same story as the person above, it would grow until it was absolute proof that the republicans have been cheating all along. Some people will be stuck in that mode forever.
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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and so if they did pay him back then? It wouldn't have been much....
traveling expenses and a bit more.... not like they set him up for life....
not even close to what kerry has received from the opening of trade with vietnam.... that they didn't tell the people about and the 'people' didn't check out (I wouldn't have kown if I hadn't come to this website)
JOhn looked about 15 back then didn't he? and he was willing to take all that on! wow, what an amazing man! still is today!
being paid, doesn't mean he wasn't telling the truth !
John was working to expose the truth back then, just as he is today!
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Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
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hiyall
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Don't misunderstand. The John O'Neil that I have learned about has demonstrated honor and integrity at every instance that I have heard him or read the words that he wrote.
I just want to be verifiable factual in my response to my friend. There were other unfounded allegations that I am researching that are unrelated to swiftees and therefore did not put on this forum.
The one thing that convinced my wife of Mr. O'Neil's character was the recent donation of his kidney to his wife. My wife was born in ChonQing and became a citizen on Oct. 11, 2004. She was able to cast a vote for the first time in her life (she is in her late 40's). As I was casting my votes in the voting machine for President Bush, I heard her voice raised, "I want Bush, someone please help me vote for Bush". It was the highlight of my day, week, year.
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| montana wrote: | | I was going to reply, but Navy Navy Navy said it all. |
 I hear that a lot.
Well, never say in ten words what you can take up a hundred to say! 
| hiyall wrote: | | As I was casting my votes in the voting machine for President Bush, I heard her voice raised, "I want Bush, someone please help me vote for Bush". It was the highlight of my day, week, year. |
That makes my day, too - wish I could have been there! 
_________________
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The following excerpt is one that I seek assistance with garnering the facts. Please reply to me either privately or on forum with relevant information. I take it that he is referring to the existence of Mr. O'Neil's meeting with then President Nixon. I am not familiar enough with the other part of my friend's claim of payments and I figure that it is some kind of internet/msm myth and attempt to discredit the swiftvets. |
"Heck, the guy who started swift boat "veterans for truth" was paid by republicans specifically to attack kerry 20 years ago when kerry was recognised by nixon as a direct threat. The same guy..."
Alright, I'm going to pull this apart for you.
First of all, the SVPT is not a "guy". It's a GROUP. And the name of the group is "Swift Vets and POWs For Truth" (originally "Swift Boat Vets for Truth") There are several founders, of which one is John O'Neill (which I'm fairly sure he's referring to from the context. Somehow, I don't think he is referring Rear Admiral Hoffmann)
John O'Neill is a graduate of the US Naval Academy at Annapolis (with honors), and a combat veteran of Vietnam, spending significantly more time in combat than Kerry ever did. He was honorably discharged on completion of his Navy obligation.
He isn't a republican, and it's doubtful he was ever employed by the republicans for any reason.
20 years ago, Ronald Reagan was president, Richard Nixon was long retired by that time, having resigned the Presidency in the mid 1970s, over 30 years ago. 20 years ago, Nixon was touring Europe, and most probably completely unaware of John O'Neill. By the way, Nixon wasn't president in 1968, either, if that helps.
That Nixon would consider Kerry a direct threat is no surprise. Richard Nixon served in the US Navy, having accepted a commission in 1942 at the outbreak of WWII. Nixon served in the South Pacific during the war, as Officer in Charge of the South Pacific Combat Air Transport Command at Guadalcanal in the Solomons and later at Green Island, and other Navy duties until he was released from Active Duty in 1946, after the war, holding the rank of Lieutenant Commander. He stayed in the Navy Reserve, even as he served as Vice President of the United States. He was promoted to Commander in 1953. He retired from the Navy in 1966.
Nixon served in the US Navy with honor, receiving an Honorable Discharge for his service. His record is available here: www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-8.htm
Kerry dishonored the Navy, his fellow Naval officers, and every Vietnam veteran by his actions during and after his Navy service before he was dismissed from the Navy.
Why are you surprised that ANY Naval officer would consider Kerry a threat?
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Arkansas National Guard 79
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hiyall
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks all. I have prepared my researched reply and sent it off.
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Jack Mclaughlin
PO3
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Nixon loved America. He endured the same kind of attacks we face today. Every president that followed Nixon sought his advice and wise counsel. O`Neill, although a democrat, thought Nixon was doing a great job with his Vietnamization strategy. |
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d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I am reminded of Kerry's trip to New York with his friends and patrons in the U.S. Senate, . . . was it during or just before Dewey Canyon III, where Edgar Bronfman, owner of Seagrams, and some of his kind came up with $50,000 for Kerry, just like that?
And the CPUSA (that's Communist Party USA) paying Al Hubbard's expenses to go to Paris to plot treason with the Communist Vietnamese, as reported in the released FBI files.
I don't like he-did/she-did argumentation, but come on . . .
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"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide"
Last edited by d19thdoc on Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: debunk assistance please |
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hiyall wrote that his friend said:
| Quote: | "Heck, the guy who started swift boat "veterans for truth"
was
paid by republicans specifically to attack kerry 20 years ago when
kerry was
recognised by nixon as a direct threat. The same guy..." |
Your friend should explore the complete thought . . . a direct threat to the national security interests of the United States.
Maybe that's also why the non-partisan United States Navy gave Kerry an "other than honorable" discharge and yanked his security clearance.
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For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
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BMG Mike
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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NNN wrote "Your friend should, today, be outraged that her party was so misled as to allow a former communist sympathizer and empty suited liar and traitor to get as far as he did in the campaign process."
I would challenge the use of the word "former" as assuming facts that are not in evidence.
If "former" really applies, where/when was the apology? In line with this site's insistence on proof, Post a link, please.
Sorry if my sarcasm is showing.
Seriously - Good Work, all. The battle is won, but the war's not yet over.
Mike
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BrianC
PO2
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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HiYall:
If it's truly such a big deal to your friend that O'Neil met with President Nixon, then can I assume that your friend will be completely outraged that Kerry met with the Communist Vietnamese leaders while our POWs were still being held, and while the war was still going on?
If your friend ISN'T outraged by those facts (Kerry met with them TWICE) - then I'd certainly ask your friend "Why not?" if I were you. |
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