 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
 Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:11 pm Post subject: Benton Courier: More Kerry Denial |
 |
|
I was reticent to post this but, in deference to those who wish to remain pro-active in debunking Kerryspin, this is a target of opportunity that screams for a rejoinder. (emphasis mine)
| Quote: | Opinions
Bipartisanship not in the cards
by Mike Dougherty
News Editor
Benton Courier
Thursday, November 11, 2004 1:47 PM CST
What does "reaching across the aisle" mean at this point? The Bush administration believed it was ordained to do what it wanted after being handed the 2000 election by the United States Supreme Court. It wasn't exactly big on coalition-building.
As hard as it is to believe, George W. and Co. are even more arrogant this time, after having won the popular vote.
In his remarks after the election, Bush said he was anxious to reach across the aisle, if the Democrats were ready to embrace his agenda. That's not exactly olive branch material, despite the president's ludicrous claims that he is a uniter, not a divider.
The question becomes, from a political standpoint, what's in it for the Democrats to be conciliatory? Bush has clearly said that he'll do things his way.
So why should the Democrats go through the motions of working with the administration if they're being told to get on the bus or get left behind?
Maybe it's time to start rebuilding the image now - why wait until the 2006 elections or the 2008 presidential campaign?
The Democrats have always taken some strange solace in wearing a white hat and not fighting dirty. That doesn't seem to be working, does it?
Talk about how dirty the GOP's Swift Boat Veterans campaign was all you want, but it kept Kerry mired in the mud for weeks and he began regaining traction only a few weeks before the election.
A conclusion?
Yes. Democrats need to think more like Lee Atwater and Karl Rove and quit worrying about what it looks like. The fact is that the two political masterminds' tactics worked. They were able to define the Democrats in terms that they made ugly and never looked back.
Oh, Atwater found religion as he was dying of brain cancer and made a few apologies, but who knows how heartfelt deathbed confessions are? His work is what he is remembered for, not his political niceties at the end of the string.
The closest that the Democrats have had in the last quarter of a century is James Carville, the Louisiana adviser who became famous as a key man in President Clinton's 1992 success. He has written a number of books advising Democrats and liberals that they don't have to be ashamed of who they are and how they feel about issues just because the Republicans say so.
The books have had moderate success, but they use common sense and don't call anybody names, so no one notices.
But whose books have sold millions? Those written by Ann Coulter, the blond, leggy "consultant" who started as a cable TV talking head, and became the conservative expert to book when she called liberals every name she could think of and accused them of treason. Her books are riddled with outright lies, but TV bookers don't care about that - they just know that she's blonde, pretty and will say something outrageous.
The Democrats' answer is Al Franken, a 53-year-old nerdy comedian who made the bestseller lists with books with outrageous titles ("Rush Limbaugh Is A Big, Fat Idiot" and "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right") and covers (the word Liars in the second book is strategically placed under televisions showing Bill O'Reilly, Coulter, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney). He is also the best-known host of the progressive radio talk network, Air America.
I assure you that I'm a huge Franken fan, both as a comedian and a left-leaning writer-commentator, but I'd rather see a picture of Ann Coulter or another blond GOP "analyst" every time.
And therein lies the problem.
Republicans don't have any guilt whatsoever about sticking beautiful women on TV to attract voters to their cause. Democrats say: "We don't do that - it's using women."
The GOP doesn't mind getting tons of money behind an attack effort like the Swift Boat Veterans campaign. The fact that most of their claims were disproved by the end of the campaign didn't matter - the Democrats spent six weeks doing it, the Kerry campaign was slow to react and lost time on the defensive that it should have and could have been using to attack Bush's unsuccessful policies.
Al Gore in 2000 avoided any connection with Clinton, fearing GOP threats that they would associate him with Clinton's sexual escapades in the White House. As a result, he didn't campaign aggressively about the hugely successful administration in which he'd played an important role.
All of these attitudes by the Democrats are noble, maybe even the "right" thing to do. But guess what, fellow liberals! We're losing elections to people who aren't afraid to fight dirty, get mean and set the agenda for a public that is too lazy to know the difference.
And the big 2-by-4 that should be hitting you in the head by now is labeled with two words: It's working.
And that is what matters, ultimately.
History books used by our great-grandchildren will not record that Al Gore fought a fair campaign and didn't try to cash in on the success of a hedonistic president who can't keep his pants on. They won't say that John Kerry was fair in his treatment of George W. Bush's National Guard exploits.
They'll only report that George W. Bush was the winner and president.
Is this an unpleasant realization for some Democrats - that they must fight dirty and get mean? Maybe, but not nearly as sickening as seeing that goofy Alfred E. Newman grin for four more years.
So take your pick: You can keep losing or you can get tough and fight fire with fire.
Mike Dougherty is news editor of the Benton Courier. His column appears Sundays and Thursdays. His e-mail address is doughertywriter@yahoo.com.
Benton Courier |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Anker-Klanker
Admiral
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Richardson, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I really don't get it. Why is it that when one of these guys says what the Republicans is going to do it turns out it's really a signal of what the Democrats are going to do. Or when they complain about what the Republicans do, or did, it's really what the Democrats do, or did? What drives this universal transferance? It's not just one nut, it's practically all of them. Did they all go to the same brain-washing seminar? (I want a piece of that franchise; it's been attended by 48% of the population.)
I have to be amused at despite the fact they know the SBVPT has been "thoroughly discredited" they all seem to point to the SBVPT as their favorite bogey-man. The SBVPT must have made more of an impact than we all know, or acknowledge.
To that last point, I visited our local genealogy library this morning, and fell into a conversation with a lady I've encountered there quite frequently in the past. We kind of had to feel our way tentatively in this conversation to find that we both supported the same side. It's a long story but eventually we got around to talking about the SBVPT and it turns out she knew more about Kerry's checquered past than I did; she was really up on the subject - and she has never visited this site. Yeah!!! The "word" got out somehow!!
Last edited by Anker-Klanker on Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just couldn't resist. What I wrote him.
| Quote: |
Hi guy, you'll be happy to know your name has been added to a list. You probably are not going to like being on this list but you have placed yourself there by lying to the American public.
This list is being compiled to identify Communist 'useful idiots' in the media for future criminal prosecution of said same media.
So keep on telling your lies (and we know that you know that you are lying). Help us make our case please. |
Dusty |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Barbie2004
Commander
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 338
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dusty, that is a great retort, but I have one recommendation, should you wish to consider it.
| Quote: | | This list is being compiled to identify Communist 'useful idiots' in the media for future criminal prosecution of said same media. |
You are absolutely right; many in the MSM are indeed "communist," but they would never admit it, because they know their audience would disappear, at best. To them communism (which they call "liberalism" or some other euphamism) is "for the greater good."
But the last part of your statement, I would have changed to "for future public exposure, loss of credibility, reduction of audience, and decrease in money and income."
Communists always expect you and I to give up our money "for the greater good," but they never expect to give up any of their own.
Hitting them in their pocketbook is a sure way to get their attention!
BTW dusty: I would like a copy of that list. This is also one of my future projects. . .going after the MSM!
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anker-Klanker
Admiral
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Richardson, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| communists > socialists > liberals > PROGRESSIVES (the current prefered term) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Barbie2004
Commander
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 338
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | communists > socialists > liberals > PROGRESSIVES (the current prefered term) |
Isn't that funny?
I had a professor, for a "policy studies" class, who explained the philosophy of the "progressives" at the turn of the century. I thought that that philosophy sounded mightily like "communism" to me, but I knew better than to bring that to his attention.
Sometimes, I couldn't help but challenge him to some degree. That is why I ended up with a "B" in the class. 
So it would seem that history does indeed repeat itself!
Not to mention, "a pile of crap" by any other name still smells like a "pile of crap"! 
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MSeeger
Seaman
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 174
Location: Katy, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, I wrote him a nice long letter. He will ignore it, of course, but it made me feel better.
In effect, I told the man that his advice was guaranteed to keep the Democratic party losing. They don't need to be dirtier and meaner. They need to start taking the moral high ground. But, of course, it will go in one ear and out the other.
Maria
_________________
Be not deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal. 6:7 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The writer and his treatise are excellent examples of people who still just don't get it. 
If they ever do get it and learn that their message is just plain wrong, they'll start winning some more elections. 
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JROTC
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 83
Location: Milwaukee, WI
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Could someone actually write this AND believe it to be true?
| Quote: | | The Democrats have always taken some strange solace in wearing a white hat and not fighting dirty. |
I humbly suggest that he indeed does "get it" - SBVT are liars, blah, blah ...
They recycle over & over - why? To convince themselves?
Frankly, the man may be dumber than a rock, but I can't help but give him more credit than that. This is why I believe him and his ilk's reasoning is to purposefully deceive and weave.
I could be wrong - they might all be rocks 
_________________
"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it" - General Douglas MacArthur |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MiltonThrasher
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 38
Location: Sarasota, FL 55 miles south of Tampa
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:54 am Post subject: My e-mail to rebut Dougherty |
|
|
I sent this to the writer:
If you know anywhere that the SBV for Truth have not told the truth, you should publish it instead of making vague claims.
You continue to claim that
"The GOP doesn't mind getting tons of money behind an attack effort like the Swift Boat Veterans campaign. The fact that most of their claims were disproved by the end of the campaign didn't matter - the Democrats spent six weeks doing it, the Kerry campaign was slow to react and lost time on the defensive that it should have and could have been using to attack Bush's unsuccessful policies"
The MSM has not disproved any significant facts that the Swift Boat Veterans and POWs for Truth has published about Kerry's inconsistencies in his own stories about the circumstances and how he got his Purple Hearts and other medals.
The reason that the Democrats did not try to defend Kerry is that the SBVs were truthful and Kerry would have been very badly exposed if they and he tried to defend him. His actions were indefensible.
The fact that Kerry has never signed the Form 180 to have all of his records publicized supports the contention that Kerry had less than an honorable discharge and lost his medals until they and he were reinstated by President Carter.
Journalists are morally obligated to investigate rather than pass on others opinions as facts. You failed the test of a good journalist.
Milton Thrasher
Korean War Combat Veteran that
supports the SBV and POWs for Truth
_________________
I have a great distrust of John Kerry and
want him to answer the Swift Boat Vets for
Truth's challenge to his statements appearing
in his books and speeches. Vote for Bush/Cheney '04. Korean War vet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shadowy
Commander
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 301
Location: St. Louis, MO
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
So it's no more Mr. Nice Guy, huh? NOW they're going to fight dirty? I hope so. I hope they do whatever it is they think they've been too virtuous and fastidious to do already.
Do they have someone uglier and more dishonest than Michael Moore to write their propaganda flicks? Someone richer and less patriotic than George Soros or Hezbollah hiding in the wings to finance the next go-round? Will they tell John Kerry to forget about acting restrained like Al Gore after losing the election, and really let loose for the next campaign? Do they have a better slogan than "fake, but accurate"? Are they grooming Clinton to say cruder and less statesmanlike things about America and our President than Jimmy Carter did, and does? Maybe their next candidate won't be so refined, and can call his opponent worse things than liar and deserter and idiot. Maybe his wife won't stop at merely calling people ******** and telling them to shove it.
Oh, and next time some shiftless bunch of veterans attacks their candidate with a pack of lies that somehow can't be disproven, they shouldn't just politely scream over every word they try to say, or restrict themselves to simple slander and libel in response. They should punch the button and blow their suicide vests on the air, because that's what the right wingers would do, isn't it? Yeah, they've just been too gosh darned nice to win. That's the problem all right. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here is another email reply I sent him, to be ignored, LOL
| Quote: | Mr. Dougherty,
I read your article with interest about how arrogant Mr. Bush is now that he has won the election. I dare say Mr. Kerry seems just, as if not more so, arrogant with his claims of returning to the senate and opposing Bush.
I also note that you claim the Swift vets were a Republican paid front group. I thought objective journalists actually researched matters before they wrote about them? Your ill chosen words prove to me that you didn't. As one of the thousands of active supporters of the Swift vets, who earns little more than $35,000 a year, I will proudly wear the title of Republican Funded front.
I too read their book, Unfit for Command and have to wonder how you claim it was discredited and disproved? I intently followed and campaigned against Mr. Kerry and diligently researched the material cited in the book and cannot come up with a single point either discredited or disproved, other than whiny liberals claiming so without a shred of documentation. In fact, I believe early on in the controversy, it was Mr. Kerry's campaign that ended up changing some claims he has made over several years, due to points mentioned in their book.
As a Vietnam veteran, who also has a few medals, your article offends me as does your baseless claims. I doubt that matters to you, but maybe you should use what journalistic credibility you may have still intact and actually research and find out why the vast majority of us veterans worked so hard to see Mr. Kerry defeated. It might also interest you to know that several of those campaigning against Mr. Kerry don't even support Mr. Bush, but saw even greater dangers in allowing a person like Kerry to lead this nation for 4 years.
Try reaching out to veterans and discover why we opposed him, if you have the guts to challenge your own bias.
Lew Waters |
_________________
Clark County Conservative |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
