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Barbie2004
Commander
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 338
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 Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, Beatrice:
The quote is in the second part of the interview. It is near the top of the page, although you may have to scroll some. The link is here:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15321
The entire quoted paragraph is here (without my emphasis):
| Quote: | | The consequences will parallel those in Indo-china but for us will be much worse. In Indo-china when Kennedy, Kerry, Dean and the other antiwar activists (myself included) were able to prevail in the political argument, and America cut and ran, the result was a bloodbath in Southeast Asia in which the Communists slaughtered two and a half million people. If we were to lose in Iraq and be forced to withdraw, there would be a bloodbath of all those who fought with us, and who resisted the terrorists, and then all those in the terrorists’ path. It would not probably reach the proportions of the Vietnam and Cambodian catastrophes immediately, but it would spread to other Muslim states whose governments the radicals are seeking to overthrow and eventually come home to the United States, something that did not happen in the Cold War with Communism. |
Perhaps I misunderstood him, but my believe is that we have been fighting communism, in one form or another, at least since the turn of the (last) century and when I look at how some laws have come about and interpretted by the court(s), I have no doubt that that has been the case.
Nobody (in the press) ever calls it that though.
Hope this helps.  |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Barbie2004 wrote: | | The quote is in the second part of the interview... “..If we were to lose in Iraq and be forced to withdraw, there would be a bloodbath .... it would spread to other Muslim states whose gov'ts the radicals are seeking to overthrow & eventually come home to the United States, something that did not happen in the Cold War with Communism.” Perhaps I misunderstood him, but my believe is that we have been fighting communism, in one form or another, at least since the turn of the (last) century and when I look at how some laws have come about and interpretted by the court(s), I have no doubt that that has been the case. Nobody (in the press) ever calls it that though. |
Ok Barbie2004, I see where you did, perhaps, misunderstand the part about “..and eventually come home to the U.S., something that did not happen in the Cold War with Communism.” He is speaking about how the danger is worse now with radical Islam, especially with regards to withdrawing from Iraq and the consequences being that the radical elements would come here as opposed to the Cold War when communism was “contained” and we didn’t worry about the Russians coming to the U.S. en force -- we had nuclear weapons pointed at each other... stalemate (the Russians weren’t suicidal). That didn’t stop the ideology from crossing the ocean and getting a grip on the minds of some though and the infiltration of that thought and mindset into our culture.....
In this book, he “confronts the paradox of how so many Americans, incl. the leadership of the dem party, could turn against the War on Terror in Iraq.” He says the political Left “shares a view of America as the ‘Great Satan’ with America’s radical Islamic enemies. This Left, which once made common cause with Communists, has now joined forces with radical Islam in attacking America’s defenses at home and its policies abroad. From their positions of influence in the university & media culture, leftists have defined America as the ‘root cause’ of the attacks against it.”
I really think you’ll get a lot out of his book -- it is too complex to explain unless you take it from the beginning and get the background. As it is, I know already that I will have to read it again -  - I think I’m going to have to chart it to get a better understanding of the tangled webs of the current organizations running rampant here and working against the interests of this country.
As to the press mentioning “communism” -- no, you don’t hear anything about “neo-comms,” -- I think I’d go into shock if they did --  -- but they do speak of people who embrace neo-communism all the time: They are called “Progressives.” |
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d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Barbie2004 wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | | As you have shown in your work, Conservatives are extremely weak in fighting political war. |
I noticed this myself and have always wondered why this is the case. They don't seem to articulate their position well, even though they are on the "right" side of the debate. Obviously having a "progressive" MSM doesn't help. |
Perhaps the only criticism of Bush as leader which had any traction with me was a cristicism that no one made: that he did a very poor job of articulating the necessity for the Iraq war, apart from the WMD argument, which, if true, was an urgent causus belli, but not a exclusive or even determining "cause for war."
I think partly his timidity in taking on the "enemy within" is in an understanding that, in order to govern, you have to have some level of cooperation with the opposition.
But it is long past time when someone in power makes the case for the endemic treason that is routinely practised by the "progressives" in this country. The fear may be that open civil strife may be the result of such a political tactic. My fear is that if a direct political confrontation is not made against this threat, then open and violent confrontation will be the inevitable long term result.
Expose them now, or be attacked, literally by them in the future, when their poison has corrupted even more converts.
In a sense, the argument against Kerry's appeasement tendencies in the war on terror is the same argumemnt I am making about appeasing these subversives in our political midst.
The real weapon to expose them with is the truth, so that we do not wind up being attacked by them later. Discrediting the MSM is an essential part of this exposure.
How different would this campaign have been if Bush had directly taken on Kerry's anti-Vietnam war activities, and if he had connected that treason with the anti-Iraq war flip-flops of the Democratic party leadership, including Kerry.
When the SwiftVets got attention, finally, there were hints from McCain and others that the Kerry anti-war activities were "fair game," if his in-country military history was not; but that game was never put in motion at the top levels of the Republican campaign. Only the SwiftVets and other ad hoc vet organizations, and some Internet and non-MSM conservative media carried the ball. Why?
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For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
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Hammer2
PO2
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting that the subject of Saul Alinsky came up.
How many of you here know of the inspiration he provided that shaped the politics and career of another famous American?
Guess who?
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| d19thdoc wrote: | | When the SwiftVets got attention, finally, there were hints from McCain and others that the Kerry anti-war activities were "fair game," if his in-country military history was not; but that game was never put in motion at the top levels of the Republican campaign. Only the SwiftVets and other ad hoc vet organizations, and some Internet and non-MSM conservative media carried the ball. Why? |
Exactly, yes, WHY? The only thing I could think of was that for some people, perhaps, the past held things they were ashamed of or that they didn't want people to know about -- maybe involved in the anti-war movement themselves, physically or financially, or something else -- and if they came forward with this subject that they themselves would be scrutinized... perhaps they were intimidated by the hostile tactics they saw used against the Swifts with regards to blocking the ads, the book, the showing of Stolen Honor, etc. That's all I could think of - fear of exposure of something personal? -- the dems were full-force into personal attacks and blocking this subject .. they would surely go after anyone coming at them on that issue. ? I don't know. That's all I could think of -- cowardice -- and it was a real disappointment! |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Hammer2 wrote: | Interesting that the subject of Saul Alinsky came up.
How many of you here know of the inspiration he provided that shaped the politics and career of another famous American? Guess who? |
Oh, that's good  Thanks!! Dossier on Hillary.... Plus, she's got Morton Halperin...
HALPERIN, Morton (father of Mark Halperin/ABC News; and assoc. w/Soros)
--1971: involved with Ellsberg in leaking Pentagon Papers. SOURCE
--9/20/93: He is one of a number of former gov’t. officials who for decades have been actively assoc. with a network of hard-core Marxist organizations operating in our nation's capital. SOURCE
--2004: Today is Sr VP of the left-wing Center for American Progress (CAP) & Dir. of the Open Society Policy Center established by eccentric billionaire int’l. financier George Soros.
“CAP”--created/led by John D. Podesta, former Chief of Staff to Bill Clinton. CAP is also known as “the official Hillary Clinton think tank.” SOURCE
--2004: Supports Kerry (attended George Soros’ 7/17/03 meeting in Southampton, along with John Podesta & others, at which Soros laid out his plan to defeat Pres. Bush.) SOURCE |
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JimRobson
Lieutenant
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 242
Location: Jacksonville FL
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Oh guys and gals... this is getting juicy. I had no idea just how dangerous Hillary is. My brain is starting to hurt from all this info, but keep it coming. This is MAJOR stuff.
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http://www.thewebplace.com/ |
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Barbie2004
Commander
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 338
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the article Hammer2.
Quoting The re-emergence of Hillary Rodham Clinton by Joseph Farah, emphasis mine:
| Quote: | | David Brock writes in "The Seduction of Hillary Clinton" that under her control, the LSC "quickly swung back to the 1960s approach of aggressively using the courts to expand the welfare system and increase governmental control over private property, and to conduct ideologically generated and driven litigation." Hillary linked the LSC with various Marxist front groups, including the National Lawyers Guild. |
There is no doubt that the government has indeed gained massive control of private property, and it is not suprising to find out that Hillary has such a background.
What concerns me is that it is still not revealed the damage that the Clintonistas have done to our freedoms and security. Two areas of major concern to me, just off the top of my head, are:
1. The federal policy of "favoring arbitration over litigation." I could write legions about this, and if anyone is interested, I could write up something in a couple of days explaining the dangers of "arbitration" over "litigation" and how lawyers and judges have distinct advantages, at the expense of us "little people." Given my research and experience, I would never voluntarily get involved in arbitration. It is a financial sink hole, with no safeguards.
In short, don't let the media convince you that our society is "over litigated" through reporting on "sensational" cases. The MSM just wants us to give up our ability to have our due process rights expressed in public. They want us to accept private, out of the eye of the public, conflict resolution.
2. We still don't know the effects of Clintonistas giving all that technology to China. It used to be that China couldn't keep satelites up in space. Since Clinton sold those technological secrets to China they have been able to launch satelites. I have a feeling we will pay heavily in the future for this.
Final note on this segment: I don't know what happened, but since this article was written, if I am not mistaken, David Brock has "jumped to the other side." I don't know why or the details.
| Quote: | | It is with this background that Americans should evaluate her next grand proposal -- a federal initiative on child care. Does she really care about your kids? Don't believe it. The children's liberation movement from which Hillary springs believes in using kids to gain power over their parents and society. They use children to destroy our most basic and fundamental rights. |
Absolutely correct. Communist arguments always begin with "the greater good" argument. If that doesn't work, then they move to "but it's for the sake of the children" argument.
Caution: they (the Communists) of this country will try to gain control, or "regulate" the internet "for the sake of the children."
My response is that technology, parental guidance and controls, are the "regulators" of the internet, NOT the government.
The government will only end up controlling you and I, not the "bad guys."
Which brings be to another caveat, traditionally, Communists have wanted to create chaos, so that they can come in and "save the day" with their regulations and cures. Lenin had this as part of his revolutionary plan in 1917 revolution in Russia. Create chaos, then "save the day." I wouldn't be a bit suprised if Hillary's buddies aren't behind the bad side of the internet, just do they can gain control of the internet.
That way, they can step in with government controls. Look at what they did with so called "spam" laws. Realistically, technology has the ability to control "spam". The spammers have not stopped.
All the "spam" regulation has done is limit our ability to communicate with one another. And that regulation has provided them with a vehicle whereby if they (the government) doesn't like what you say, they can use the "spam" laws to go after you and your assets.
Very good article Hammer2. I just wish the general public were aware of the information contained therein.
Thank you for the contribution d19thdoc.
d19thdoc wrote:
| Quote: | | The fear may be that open civil strife may be the result of such a political tactic. My fear is that if a direct political confrontation is not made against this threat, then open and violent confrontation will be the inevitable long term result. |
I couldn't agree more d19thdoc. But I actually think that it has already started. Look at all the threats and violence against Republican offices, most of which was not reported by the MSM. And certainly there was no comprehensive reporting on who was behind it. I did my own research and found that the common thread, when perpetrators were caught, had a link to the AFL-CIO and subordinate Unions, particularly the SEIU. Did the media report this, NO!
Why NOT??
Thank you for the suggestion, Beatrice. I am going to get the books that you suggested, just as soon as I catch up on some personal matters that were ignored and postponed due to the election.
One quick comment, I was quite young during the USSR era. But I can say this emphatically, I was never afraid of the USSR nuking us.
Beatrice wrote:
| Quote: | | the Russians weren’t suicidal |
Exactly! The nukes were just "political pieces" for the players. Neither side was going to use them. Neither side was "suicidal."
We all know that is not true today. "Suicide" is very much a reality for our enemies of today. And they won't hesitate to use nukes if they could get their hands on them.
What frightens me, is with all that oil in the middle east, they (terrorists or any enemy state) may in fact be able to get nukes using the proceeds from that oil.
Beatrice wrote:
| Quote: | | That didn’t stop the ideology from crossing the ocean and getting a grip on the minds of some though and the infiltration of that thought and mindset into our culture..... |
My father used to tell me, and still does, that he has always believe that there were communist elements in the State Department. Isn't it funny, my understanding is that Kerry's father was career in the State Department. I will have to look this up, I haven't had time yet. If anyone knows, please let me know how I can find out more about this.
| Quote: | | This Left, which once made common cause with Communists, has now joined forces with radical Islam in attacking America’s defenses at home and its policies abroad. From their positions of influence in the university & media culture, leftists have defined America as the ‘root cause’ of the attacks against it.” |
Who are they? How did they get those postions? How have they managed to keep non-communists out?
Thank again Beatrice. I will get those books, probably sometime late next week.
depotoo wrote:
| Quote: | | as i was a teen and feel as though an important part of my life was stolen from me. |
Me too! I was a little younger, but no less affected.
Thank you too Me#1You#10. I know that if we put out head together, we will get to the bottom of the mystery!
Me#1You#10 wrote:
| Quote: | | I certainly agree with what appears to be a consensus that understanding the nature of the "enemy within" is critical to combating the influence that they now historically bring to bear on any contemporary socio-political issue. |
I firmly believe that it is (or was) the "enemy within" that would not allow the Swiftboat Vets story and Kerry anti-american activities to puncture the MSM and reach the general public.
That is why this issue is so important to me. We won the election, yes. But the "enemy within" is still out there, with more "Kerrys" are waiting in the wings to emerge later.
I may have heard this somewhere, but I think I heard John O'Neill comment that he was suprised at how hard it was to get the Swiftboat story out, past the MSM. Perhaps it was some commentator. But from my perspective, there is no doubt that the attacks on the Swiftboat Vets & POW's is (or was) a concerted effort by the "enemies within".
I do NOT buy that it was "group think." NO. It (the Swiftboat Vet blackout and attacks from the MSM) was definately a concerted effort from the "enemies within". We just need to put our head together and figure out the ROOT cause, beit groups, individuals, laws, and/or organizations.
I will not let this go. Consider this quest of mine a gift to the Swiftboat Veterans, POWs, and United States of America.
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Hammer2
PO2
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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There was at least one famous Soviet spy in the State department.
Alger Hiss
The method of Communist subversion has been known for a long time.
J. Edgar Hoover
This is the original source of their methods.
Excerpt from "What is to be done?" V.I. Lenin, 1902
"I assert: (1) that no revolutionary movement can endure without a stable organisation of leaders maintaining continuity; (2) that the broader the popular mass drawn spontaneously into the struggle, which forms the basis of the movement and participates in it, the more urgent the need for such an organisation, and the more solid this organisation must be (for it is much easier for all sorts of demagogues to side-track the more backward sections of the masses); (3) that such an organisation must consist chiefly of people professionally engaged in revolutionary activity; (4) that in an autocratic state, the more we confine the membership of such an organisation to people who are professionally engaged in revolutionary activity and who have been professionally trained in the art of combating the political police, the more difficult will it be to unearth the organisation; and (5) the greater will be the number of people from the working class and from the other social classes who will be able to join the movement and perform active work in it."
Link to full document: What is to be done?
Know who we really fight!
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| Barbie2004 wrote: | How do you think that happened, the "branch[ing] much too quickly"?
What was behind it? What exactly facilitated that "branching"?
And, how did they "organize" their effort? |
One of my points was that people like Kerry & Fonda (with some help from their Communist ideological masters) made the "branching" respectable.
You can't "branch" if you are loathed - for example, the American Nazi party doesn't go very far.
-- FDL
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"Millions For Defense, Not One Cent For Tribute" - Thomas Jefferson on paying ransom to Muslim corsairs (pirates). |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Beatrice1000 wrote: | | The analysis of America that drives the left today -- even leftists as otherwise sensible and "democratic" as Todd Gitlin -- is remarkably similar to the views of America held by Stalinists fifty years ago ....." |
Think of ideological contamination as a semi-permanent viral infection on a population. It takes a long time to disinfect if that is possible, and like other viral infections, ideological contamination spreads and become self-perpetuating.
The U.S. has NOT YET RECOVERED from the ideological infections inflicted upon us deliberately and with malice by the Communists, especially the Soviet and Vietnamese variety, and cultured and spread by the likes of Kerry and Fonda.
Vectors (reservoirs) that perpetuate the infection include the media and academia.
The cycle must be broken!
-- FDL |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Beatrice1000 wrote: | | We need to start thinking along the lines of how to resist, delay, deflect, oppose and ultimately defeat the assault on our freedoms. As progressives, we will need to marshal at least as much dedication, purpose, strategic focus and tactical ruthlessness, ....And we should be thinking about the indispensable work of resistance. We need to identify legislative and administrative choke points where Bush's initiatives can be blocked, and make clear to both legislators and their constituents that the days of go-along in the interest of non-partisan comity have to stop..... |
These are serious fighting words. Remember them well. Take them seriously.
One fatal mistake made by many is to not take the words of lunatics at face value.
-- FDL |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Beatrice1000 wrote: | | FYI: David was more than just an anti-war activist, but was one of the founders of the New Left movement in the 1960s. As you quoted above, he had a change in thinking after we pulled out of Vietnam and 2-1/2 million people were slaughtered |
In his memoirs, Horowitz also reveals the start of his ideological change occured when a woman friend of his, an administrative assistant, was murdered by the Black Panther group which was never held accountable. This was primarily due to leftist support.
-- FDL |
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d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:55 am Post subject: |
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In researching, reading and writing about the substance of what the SwiftVets brought forward, something became clear to me that is even more appalling than what I previously knew about the whole enterprise of the Left in the 60's and 70's.
The real objective was not ending the Vietnam war, nor was it even the stragecic victory of the North Vietnamese Communists for whatever geo-political advantage that would provide the Soviet Union and/or Communist China.
The real objective was the subversion of the American way of life. The war in Vietnam just provided a convenient historical opportunity for them onto which they could piggy-back, and which they could manipulate to stir up popular opposition to the U.S. government, primarily by means of false propaganda. The other tools of their operation in the "culture" (the word harldly even applies any longer) are everywhere evident to anyone old enough to recall what this nation used to be like.
The SwiftVets essentially outed one of their operatives, and threatened to out their means and methods, primarily what we have been calling the Main Stream Media. The almost universal attitude of the media toward the SwiftBoat vets makes no sense otherwise, given the facts.
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
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Hammer2
PO2
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:41 am Post subject: |
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You are beginning to understand.
This has been a global struggle which has been going on now for 137 years (since the publication of Das Kapital).
It was accelerated by the Bolshevik revolution of October, 1917.
World War II left the US and Soviet Union as the only superpowers. Direct conflict became impossible with the development of nuclear weapons by the United States and theft of same by Soviet Spies. Subversion from within became the Soviet tactic of choice in attacking America and it's allies.
Use class warfare to divide and conquer, spread lies and propaganda, destroy public morality, destroy education to remove the ability to think, embed agents provocateurs in influential instiutions, all designed to weaken the enemy and make it easier to overthrow the government. These are the tactics of Communists.
The Soviet Union may be gone, but there is still a strong Communist International working against freedom everywhere.
Communists now ally themselves with the Islamic terrorists in the same way that Stalin allied with Hitler. They seek to destroy us first. Each side thinks they can destroy the other after they defeat us.
Our country stands at a crossroads. The Communists just very nearly succeeded in getting one of their own elected, with hard work they were stopped. They will try again in 2008 with Hillary. With continued hard work we will defeat them again.
I believe that they are nearly finished. The people now have the tools at their disposal to prevent the propagandizing of the American people by the disinformation organs of the left. Truth destroys lies, no longer can the left shape the prevailing public opinion in America. 2004 was the year that saw the beginning of a new American Revolution, one that will spread across the globe and free millions from tyranny.
These are exciting times to live in!
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson |
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