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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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 Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Lincoln as a War Criminal? Odd question. |
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| ROTC DAD wrote: | | First, Lincoln was trying to save the United States of America, he did not invade and occupy another country (though, again, we could probably find people in the South who believe he did). |
I take it that you don't feel Nazism or Imperial Japan were threats to the United States? You don't feel terrorism is a threat to the United States? You would prefer American troops fought on American soil, that our homes and crops, our industries were destroyed as part of a war?
| Quote: | | Second, Lincoln did not deliberately set out to torture anyone, while it is becoming apparent that the systemic torture and mistreatment of prisoners in what is being called the American Gulag was deliberate and intended. |
I suggest you do some research on POW camps during the Civil War.
| Quote: | | Third, as far as I can tell Lincoln never gave up US secrets simply for political gain. |
No, Lincoln had troops fire into Americans that protested the draft.
| Quote: | | But the question becomes, why does it even matter if I think Lincoln was a war criminal or not. I can't vote for Lincoln (well, I could, but why would I). But Bush and Kerry are here now. If Bush is a war criminal, should I vote for him? |
It matters because you illustrate that you are unwilling to apply the same criteria to those you have chosen to admire.
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I suggest you do some research on POW camps during the Civil War. |
Start with Andersonville. http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/andearch.htm
It's strange the way that conservatives want to claim they're the "party of Lincoln" as a way of milking this great president's enormous popularity, while so many of them consider him a war criminal.
They want it both ways as a way of keeping the white redneck southerners who long for "old dixie" in their voting ranks. This is one reason that the Willie Horton ads were so effective, as well as the smear against McCain that he had a black love-child.
Of course they can't admit that they pander to racists for electoral reasons. |
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dhedges53
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 30
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| I thought I had something to offer. But when I am ready to say something, Sparky chimes in and crystalizes every thought in my brain into a single paragraph. Thanks, Sparky!!! If you weren't here to refute the obvious, we'd all be in trouble. Drive up to Denver and get that beer! |
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academicanarchist
Ensign
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 66
Location: Spring, Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 3:37 am Post subject: Opening Records |
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I find this entire thread very interesting. Texas has a very strong Public Information Act, which allows the public to view most documents. Governor Bush tried to get his own records excepted from the law, unsuccessfully I would add. However, this action was consistent with his attitude that what is public is private, and what is private in the lives of others is public. One motivation appears to be an effort to keep the record of his own stellar record during Viet Nam under raps, for some reason. Seekers of the truth should be concerned about the efforts of any candidate who tries to keep public records under raps. This is the url for the Texas Statutes web site (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/gv.toc.htm). The law is Texas Govt. Code 552. The preamble to the law is very interesting, and asserts a value that Bush, by his own actions, tried to undermine while ostensibly serving the public interest:
"Under the fundamental philosophy of the American constitutional form of representative government that adheres to the principle that government is the servant and not the master of the people, it is the policy of this state that each person is entitled, unless otherwise expressly provided by law, at all times to complete information about the affairs of government and the official acts of public officials and employees. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may retain control over the instruments they have created. The provisions of this chapter shall be liberally construed to implement this policy." |
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