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dmroyer
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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 Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject: Who is Reverend David Alston |
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The Reverend David Alston
Columbia, South Carolina
Vietnam Swiftboat Crewmate of John Kerry
What a fine sermon on the mount he did deliver at the DNC. What is his story? |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Who is Reverend David Alston |
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| dmroyer wrote: | The Reverend David Alston
Columbia, South Carolina
Vietnam Swiftboat Crewmate of John Kerry
What a fine sermon on the mount he did deliver at the DNC. What is his story? |
From what I've been able to glean, he was an enlisted stern gunner (probably E-3 or E-4 at the time) on the 94 boat and probably spent a total of 6 weeks of service with Kerry.
During "medalgate" in Feb and early March of 69 Kerry put him in for a Navy Commendation Medal with combat "V" for what appears to be no more than "being there"!
So you can conclude, IMHO, that 6 weeks 35 years ago entitles him to judge the character of the potential CIC. I don't think so...... at least no more than Steve Gardner and most of the officers Kerry served with.
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Who is Reverend David Alston |
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| dmroyer wrote: |
What a fine sermon on the mount he did deliver at the DNC. What is his story? |
The Reverend David Alston is an American who honorably served his country and has earned the respect and admiration of all his countrymen. I salute him and all the members of Kerry's immediate "band of brothers" for their service.
Let's keep focused on the mission at hand. |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Who is Reverend David Alston |
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| ASPB wrote: | | dmroyer wrote: | The Reverend David Alston
Columbia, South Carolina
Vietnam Swiftboat Crewmate of John Kerry
What a fine sermon on the mount he did deliver at the DNC. What is his story? |
From what I've been able to glean, he was an enlisted stern gunner (probably E-3 or E-4 at the time) on the 94 boat and probably spent a total of 6 weeks of service with Kerry.
During "medalgate" in Feb and early March of 69 Kerry put him in for a Navy Commendation Medal with combat "V" for what appears to be no more than "being there"!
So you can conclude, IMHO, that 6 weeks 35 years ago entitles him to judge the character of the potential CIC. I don't think so...... at least no more than Steve Gardner and most of the officers Kerry served with. |
He was who Fred Short temporarily replaced in late Feb, so Alston wasn't present for the Feb. 28 Silver Star incident.
Let's see, what was Alston doing that he wasn't around for that? Oh, I remember, in the hospital, recovering from wounds suffered in a firefight.
Maybe that's when he got that NCM w/"V", for "being there", and, well, getting shot.
Doug |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Who is Reverend David Alston |
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| DougReese wrote: | | ASPB wrote: | | dmroyer wrote: | The Reverend David Alston
Columbia, South Carolina
Vietnam Swiftboat Crewmate of John Kerry
What a fine sermon on the mount he did deliver at the DNC. What is his story? |
From what I've been able to glean, he was an enlisted stern gunner (probably E-3 or E-4 at the time) on the 94 boat and probably spent a total of 6 weeks of service with Kerry.
During "medalgate" in Feb and early March of 69 Kerry put him in for a Navy Commendation Medal with combat "V" for what appears to be no more than "being there"!
So you can conclude, IMHO, that 6 weeks 35 years ago entitles him to judge the character of the potential CIC. I don't think so...... at least no more than Steve Gardner and most of the officers Kerry served with. |
He was who Fred Short temporarily replaced in late Feb, so Alston wasn't present for the Feb. 28 Silver Star incident.
Let's see, what was Alston doing that he wasn't around for that? Oh, I remember, in the hospital, recovering from wounds suffered in a firefight.
Maybe that's when he got that NCM w/"V", for "being there", and, well, getting shot.
Doug |
Ok! let's try to clear this up based upon Doug Brinkley's "definitive" history:
Quote:
Page 293 of "Tour of Duty" (and I had to type this, not cut and paste it so excuse Brinkley's grammatical errors and my typos)
| Quote: | | The decision for awarding the Silver Star was made by Zumwalt. He had dozens of Swift boats being shot at and he wanted to make sure his junior officers were given proper honor. Zumwalt had at first put Kerry in for the Navy Cross, but the award would take time to clear the Navy bureaucracy back home. The Siver Star, by contrast, could be given quickly. It was the "impact award", given shortly after the action to to lift morale. "The Silver Star was rare in Vietnam," who was in Cam Rahn Bay the day of the ceremony, recalled. "Most naval officers were on great big ships. They never saw any action that would earn such an awesome honor. The Silver Star meant that you had an unbelievable moment of combat heroism. Although what Kerry did was dangerous." In addition to Kerry's Silver Star, PCF-94's performance on February 28 also earned Bronze Stars for Tommy Belodeau and Mike Medeiros and Navy Commendation Medals with Combat V Devices for Del Sandusky, Fred Short, and Gene Thorson. . |
At least from this account, the whole friggin' crew of the boat.
OK, with that typed where does Alston come off saying he was with Kerry on 28 Feb 69? He wasn't there according to Brinkley and according to you! But according to "Pastor Alston" he was. Jeez, Christians lie too?
Why does the book say the "ceremony" took place in Cam Rahn Bay when anyone who has studied this at all knows that it took place at An Thoi; 6 days after the action.
I thought that you said that Medeiros, as has Medeiros, wasn't on the boat on 28 February.? Then why did he get a medal for it?
And finally what's most important! This is all bullsh@t! This was a small firefight, as you know from being there, that was aggrandized by Kerry, Elliot, Hoffman, and Zumwalt and probably resulted in the most medals granted to a naval unit in the history of the war in Vietman. Why? So Kerry could make a movie of shooting a wounded "local" in the back?
To "improve the morale of Junior Officers" serving at a place in time that was wrong for the equipment (blame Zummie and Hoffman, I do!). It was all Bullsh#t! You know what? It wouldn't matter any more that my Silver Star was for a "somewhat" similar incident, except that......
What really pisses me off, as it does most veterans, that this is being made the "heroic prequel" for a pacifistic, appeasing, socialist anti-American puke that wants to be CinC at a time when our very existence as a sovereign nation is in doubt.
If you or any other Demagogocrat votes for this puke my question is:
Why are you to trying to kill me and my family...and youself and your family ? So J. Chirac can be President of the Euro/American Union? For "Canadian or British style" failed heathcare? For failed "affirmative action"? For failed "Social Security" that can't even pay your rent?
Best personal---not political--regards,
Tom
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Who is Reverend David Alston |
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| ASPB wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | ASPB wrote: | | dmroyer wrote: | The Reverend David Alston
Columbia, South Carolina
Vietnam Swiftboat Crewmate of John Kerry
What a fine sermon on the mount he did deliver at the DNC. What is his story? |
From what I've been able to glean, he was an enlisted stern gunner (probably E-3 or E-4 at the time) on the 94 boat and probably spent a total of 6 weeks of service with Kerry.
During "medalgate" in Feb and early March of 69 Kerry put him in for a Navy Commendation Medal with combat "V" for what appears to be no more than "being there"!
So you can conclude, IMHO, that 6 weeks 35 years ago entitles him to judge the character of the potential CIC. I don't think so...... at least no more than Steve Gardner and most of the officers Kerry served with. |
He was who Fred Short temporarily replaced in late Feb, so Alston wasn't present for the Feb. 28 Silver Star incident.
Let's see, what was Alston doing that he wasn't around for that? Oh, I remember, in the hospital, recovering from wounds suffered in a firefight.
Maybe that's when he got that NCM w/"V", for "being there", and, well, getting shot.
Doug |
Ok! let's try to clear this up based upon Doug Brinkley's "definitive" history:
Quote:
Page 293 of "Tour of Duty" (and I had to type this, not cut and paste it so excuse Brinkley's grammatical errors and my typos)
| Quote: | | The decision for awarding the Silver Star was made by Zumwalt. He had dozens of Swift boats being shot at and he wanted to make sure his junior officers were given proper honor. Zumwalt had at first put Kerry in for the Navy Cross, but the award would take time to clear the Navy bureaucracy back home. The Siver Star, by contrast, could be given quickly. It was the "impact award", given shortly after the action to to lift morale. "The Silver Star was rare in Vietnam," who was in Cam Rahn Bay the day of the ceremony, recalled. "Most naval officers were on great big ships. They never saw any action that would earn such an awesome honor. The Silver Star meant that you had an unbelievable moment of combat heroism. Although what Kerry did was dangerous." In addition to Kerry's Silver Star, PCF-94's performance on February 28 also earned Bronze Stars for Tommy Belodeau and Mike Medeiros and Navy Commendation Medals with Combat V Devices for Del Sandusky, Fred Short, and Gene Thorson. . |
At least from this account, the whole friggin' crew of the boat.
OK, with that typed where does Alston come off saying he was with Kerry on 28 Feb 69? He wasn't there according to Brinkley and according to you! But according to "Pastor Alston" he was. Jeez, Christians lie too?
Why does the book say the "ceremony" took place in Cam Rahn Bay when anyone who has studied this at all knows that it took place at An Thoi; 6 days after the action.
I thought that you said that Medeiros, as has Medeiros, wasn't on the boat on 28 February.? Then why did he get a medal for it?
And finally what's most important! This is all bullsh@t! This was a small firefight, as you know from being there, that was aggrandized by Kerry, Elliot, Hoffman, and Zumwalt and probably resulted in the most medals granted to a naval unit in the history of the war in Vietman. Why? So Kerry could make a movie of shooting a wounded "local" in the back?
To "improve the morale of Junior Officers" serving at a place in time that was wrong for the equipment (blame Zummie and Hoffman, I do!). It was all Bullsh#t! You know what? It wouldn't matter any more that my Silver Star was for a "somewhat" similar incident, except that......
What really pisses me off, as it does most veterans, that this is being made the "heroic prequel" for a pacifistic, appeasing, socialist anti-American puke that wants to be CinC at a time when our very existence as a sovereign nation is in doubt.
If you or any other Demagogocrat votes for this puke my question is:
Why are you to trying to kill me and my family...and youself and your family ? So J. Chirac can be President of the Euro/American Union? For "Canadian or British style" failed heathcare? For failed "affirmative action"? For failed "Social Security" that can't even pay your rent?
Best personal---not political--regards,
Tom |
I'll just make my few comments down here . . . .
I have no idea what Alston said about being there. I am confident he was not. I don't say this from memory, but from what I have read, and read many times, that he had been wounded.
Why did the book say the ceremony was at Cam Ranh? Don't know, don't care.
I doubt that incident resulted in the most medals awarded by the Navy for a single incident. I am confident they surpassed it on a number of occasions. But if you want ask anyone about it, I would suggest the two who should be the most accessible to you are Elliot and Hoffman. Ask them.
I don't believe I have ever said Medeiros wasn't there, nor do I recall reading where he said it. Supposedly, he disembarked right after Kerry. Anyway, if I ever said that, I was wrong.
And I agree. As I told you before, waaay back then I thought those boats had no business being down there.
Doug |
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cgc
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:54 am Post subject: Wrong equipment |
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Both of you "experts" piss me off, unless you rode em and drove em, for a year. How can you come to any educated conclusion PCF's were out of their element doing river work. ********, Those of us who served and was trained to operate swifts don't ***** about the missions we took these boats on. You guys need to stick to your own level of expertise and quit ragging on what PCF could or couldn't do.
Rode em and drove em, CGC 68-69, Danang, An Toi |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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CGC,
Because I spent a year driving and commanding ASPB's which had both the armament and armor, as well as well the draft and screw protection that PCF's didn't for river service
I worked with COSDIV 13 enough in the RSSZ to know.
Not the wrong sailors but the wrongs boats for Songs and Klongs.
Tom
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Wrong equipment |
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| cgc wrote: | Both of you "experts" piss me off, unless you rode em and drove em, for a year. How can you come to any educated conclusion PCF's were out of their element doing river work. Bullcrap, Those of us who served and was trained to operate swifts don't ***** about the missions we took these boats on. You guys need to stick to your own level of expertise and quit ragging on what PCF could or couldn't do.
Rode em and drove em, CGC 68-69, Danang, An Toi |
As I have told Tom, I am far away from being any kind of expert and/or military tactician. However, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that patrolling the rivers and canals of An Xuyen Province was not what those boats were meant for -- certainly not in the manner they were operating when I first arrived in the Province in Dec 1968, and for months after. And this is what I am referring to, not other places, not other times. Specifically An Xuyen Province/Nam Can District (the southernmost part of the province/the country) from whenever they began down there (late 1968?) up until Sea Float, which was about the summer of 1969.
With no troops on the boats, frequently no helicopter cover, and virtually never with any Arty support (as of just above our village, we were out of range), they were sitting ducks should they encounter a significant force. Fortunately, that didn't happen frequently, but it did happen.
And an incident such as that (I believe it was just before my arrival in Nam Can) is precisely the reason we advisors and Vietnamese were on the boats that morning of Feb 28, 1969 -- they said they realized their limitations, and wanted troops onboard.
I am not talking about Sea Float or Solid Anchor. That seemed to me a better idea, although I am not totally aware of what they had there, support-wise - - - - - I just know that they had more available to them, and closer (right there with them), than in the months prior.
Doug |
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