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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: | | carpro wrote: | | ASPB wrote: | | carpro wrote: | I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed. 
It's been joked about for months.  |
Many of them were. The Feb 28th film however was probably taken immediately after the action and was not the result of a return trip for re-enactment.
Why? Because most people that were there at the time recall that no one went back up that particular canal until March 13th. |
Not a return trip but still re-enacted or posed. Right?  |
Posed like anyone poses for a photo or video.
Re-enacted? No. I assume we are going by the normal definition of re-enacted. Just because he took a few seconds of himself walking with an M-16 where that incident occured, doesn't mean he's re-enacting anything.
I'm sure, sooner or later, someone else will see the video and say the same thing the other guy did -- that there was nothing all that remarkable about it.
Doug |
Doug, are you saying that the film of Kerry triumphantly waving an RPG is AS IT HAPPENED right after he shot the wounded VC and retrieved it?
If not, it's a re-enactment.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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Dave Rittiford
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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I think at this juncture mrs Kerry would say 'shove it' I intend to be funny not 'Un-American' by chiming in here.
Nice web site guys, ya make the NAVY look good to a old grunt. |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | I don't think there was anything closely resembling re-enacting.
I'm not sure if I commented about the "re-enacting" on this forum before, and if I did I apologize for repeating myself.
There was an article in the Boston Globe by a guy named Sennott (sp?). I believe he's the one who started this whole thing about re-enacting, but I think it was just sloppy writing. I mean, I don't think there was a political agenda by this guy, he just didn't pay attention to what he was saying!
Someone who read that article, and critized Kerry for what he did in that film, then had an opportunity to see it in it's entirety. He promptly changed his tune. He said that Kerry was hardly in it, and that it wasn't different from what you might see from others who had cameras -- more travelogue, than anything else.
Doug |
Wasn't kerry raising the B-40 above his head in triumph in the film????? |
While I don't think that constitutes "re-enacting", I'm not sure.
We'd have to go back and look at that Sennott piece, but I think you might be correct. At least I read somewhere that he had the B-40 in one hand and his M-16 in the other. But if so, it isn't the piece of film the campaign uses, as he's just carrying an M-16 in those.
Doug |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | carpro wrote: | | ASPB wrote: | | carpro wrote: | I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed.
It's been joked about for months. |
Many of them were. The Feb 28th film however was probably taken immediately after the action and was not the result of a return trip for re-enactment.
Why? Because most people that were there at the time recall that no one went back up that particular canal until March 13th. |
Not a return trip but still re-enacted or posed. Right? |
Posed like anyone poses for a photo or video.
Re-enacted? No. I assume we are going by the normal definition of re-enacted. Just because he took a few seconds of himself walking with an M-16 where that incident occured, doesn't mean he's re-enacting anything.
I'm sure, sooner or later, someone else will see the video and say the same thing the other guy did -- that there was nothing all that remarkable about it.
Doug |
Doug, are you saying that the film of Kerry triumphantly waving an RPG is AS IT HAPPENED right after he shot the wounded VC and retrieved it?
If not, it's a re-enactment. |
If he had the B-40 in hand (I think he might have, but I'm really not sure), it would be similar to guys taking their photo holding an AK-47.
If the filming was done soon after the shooting (and I would think that's when it was done), it would have been, ohh, perhaps 10-5-20 minutes after.
If it's re-enacting, it's going to have to be more than him walking a few steps with an M-16 and/or a B-40 in his hand. He would have to be retracing his steps, acting out what he did and/or showing the dead VC, etc.
Doug |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | Don't get this day mixed up with the other where we were up that canal -- he wasn't wounded this time.
But yes, I am confident they did whatever filming was done before we left. They (the Vietnamese) were disposing of the stuff in that supply depot, and as I said, it was calm . . . . all the VC were dead or split.
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Why all the sudden are you so confident? You've said before on this topic that you had no idea when Kerry had returned to do his filming.
Quoting you from 12/10/2002:
"'Later' could have been the same day. It also could have been several days or weeks later. I still seriously doubt it was the next day."
Kerry is on record of saying he "had returned," meaning he left and came back. According Div. 11 ops for March he was idle from March 2 thru March 10th, so he had the time on his hands to jump on his boat and make a day run back to the site. |
Why am I so confident now? Because what I have read has re-inforced what I seemed to remember.
When I said:
"Later' could have been the same day. It also could have been several days or weeks later. I still seriously doubt it was the next day."
I was thinking of the fact that I knew we went back up there, and to just about that very spot. I did not know specifically when, however, other than that it was fairly soon after.
Now that I am seeing dates for various actions, I know that the return trip up there was March 13.
As I said earlier about what happened March 13, I would be surprised if any filming would have been that day. Possible? Maybe, but doubtful.
As for you saying "he had the time on his hands to jump on his boat and make a day run back to the site", well, with all due respect, that's pretty funny.
Tom, rbshirley, anyone else who was down there and/or aware of the conditions like to comment on taking a boat out for a spin 
Doug |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: | If it's re-enacting, it's going to have to be more than him walking a few steps
with an M-16 and/or a B-40 in his hand. He would have to be retracing his
steps, acting out what he did and/or showing the dead VC, etc.
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Perhaps this article from the February 26 edition of "The Hill" will provide clarification
http://www.hillnews.com/york/022604.aspx
| Byron York wrote: |
John Kerry: Stuck in a Vietnam-era time warp
Why does Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) talk incessantly about Vietnam?
Obviously, it has given him a great political advantage in past campaigns,
and he hopes it will do the same in his race for the White House.
But there might be another reason. Perhaps more than any other
presidential candidate in recent memory, Kerry seems to be living in
another time, playing a movie of Vietnam over and over in his mind.
In fact, he is often playing an actual movie of Vietnam over and over on
his television.
Consider this scene from a remarkable profile of Kerry published in the
Boston Globe in October 1996, when Kerry was in a tough re-election
battle.
Kerry told reporter Charles Sennott the oft-repeated story of the February
1969 firefight in which Kerry attacked the Viet Cong who ambushed his
Swift boat.
Kerry won the Silver Star, as well as a Purple Heart, for his efforts.
But the story wasn’t about the firefight itself. It was also Kerry’s reaction to it.
The future senator was so “focused on his future ambitions,” Sennott
reported, that he bought a Super-8 movie camera, returned to the scene,
and re-enacted the skirmish on film.
It was that film, transferred to videotape, that Kerry played for Sennott.
“I’ll show you where they shot from. See? That’s the hole covered up with
reeds,” Kerry said as he ran the tape in slow motion.
Kerry told Sennott that his decision to re-enact the fight on film was no big
deal — “just something I did, no great meaning to it.” But it’s clear that the
old movie is a huge deal.
“Through hours of watching the films in the den of his newly renovated
Beacon Hill mansion, it becomes apparent that these are memories and
footage he returns to often,” Sennott wrote.
“Kerry jumps repeatedly from the couch to adjust the Sony large-screen
TV in his home entertainment center, making sure the picture is clear, the
color correct. He fast forwards, rewinds and freeze-frames the footage. His
running commentary — vivid, sometimes touching, sometimes self-serving
— never misses a beat.”
In John Kerry’s home entertainment center, it’s always 1969. It’s
sometimes that way in his campaign, too.
Is Kerry’s the only campaign to play Jimi Hendrix — specifically, “Fire”
from the 1967 album “Are You Experienced?” — at rallies?
Other candidates — like John Edwards, with his theme song, John
Mellencamp’s “Small Town” — aren’t exactly cutting-edge, but they have
chosen somewhat newer stuff.
And what about the music on Kerry’s bus? Before the Iowa caucuses,
Washington Post reporter Ceci Connelly described the candidate hanging
out on the bus with Peter Yarrow, his old antiwar friend from Peter, Paul,
and Mary.
“Pedro, sing us a song,” Kerry ordered one day. Yarrow picked up a guitar
and began to play and sing — and later waxed nostalgic about the antiwar
rallies he attended way back when with Kerry and Sen. Eugene McCarthy.
Earlier, Connelly wrote, when Yarrow sang “Puff the Magic Dragon” at an
event in a private home in Ames, Iowa, “Kerry lifted his fingers to his
mouth for a quick take on an imaginary joint. You can almost see his thick
mane of silver hair returning to the shaggy brown do of those days.”
Even Kerry’s latest sound bite, the speech in Ohio on Tuesday in which he
described President Bush as a “walking contradiction,” was apparently a
reference to the old days.
In this case, it was Kris Kristofferson’s “The Pilgrim, Chapter 33 “ from
1970, with its line, “He’s a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction.”
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Self aggrandizement?
That last quote pretty much sums up Kerry's political history and his current
campaign for election to be Commander-in-Chief. IMHO.
.
Last edited by rbshirley on Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: | | carpro wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | carpro wrote: | | ASPB wrote: | | carpro wrote: | I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed.
It's been joked about for months. |
Many of them were. The Feb 28th film however was probably taken immediately after the action and was not the result of a return trip for re-enactment.
Why? Because most people that were there at the time recall that no one went back up that particular canal until March 13th. |
Not a return trip but still re-enacted or posed. Right? |
Posed like anyone poses for a photo or video.
Re-enacted? No. I assume we are going by the normal definition of re-enacted. Just because he took a few seconds of himself walking with an M-16 where that incident occured, doesn't mean he's re-enacting anything.
I'm sure, sooner or later, someone else will see the video and say the same thing the other guy did -- that there was nothing all that remarkable about it.
Doug |
Doug, are you saying that the film of Kerry triumphantly waving an RPG is AS IT HAPPENED right after he shot the wounded VC and retrieved it?
If not, it's a re-enactment. |
If he had the B-40 in hand (I think he might have, but I'm really not sure), it would be similar to guys taking their photo holding an AK-47.
If the filming was done soon after the shooting (and I would think that's when it was done), it would have been, ohh, perhaps 10-5-20 minutes after.
If it's re-enacting, it's going to have to be more than him walking a few steps with an M-16 and/or a B-40 in his hand. He would have to be retracing his steps, acting out what he did and/or showing the dead VC, etc.
Doug |
It seems you're struggling a little, Doug.
After reading York's summary of Sennotts visit, I can see why.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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Thank-you to the Military
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | | Indianbaboon wrote: | | you guys make me smile |
Ya know IB,
RBShirley and I only met here in this forum. Although we don't know each other at a personal level or even have any idea about shared or disparate political ideology we do share a 35 or so year old experience of commanding inshore combat craft during the Vietnam war. We've fought, we've seen shipmates die, and we've always known that the battle was in furtherance of liberty. Ours and others.
One thing that is often forgotten in our post-modern era is that "true" American patriots do not shed their blood only for Americans but in the belief that "all" humans are entitled to the liberties our nation and the blood of our founders has provided us.
Without meeting Bob I know from his words that he shares this belief. I know that we share the belief that our system of governance can, at times at the cost of our blood, free the world from totalitarians and despots.
We also share the belief that self-aggrandizing politicans that grant supremacy to their aspirations for personal power over individual liberty for all will destroy not only America but the world.
We are not partisans, we are believers in liberty! That's what we fought for 35 years ago and what we fight for today.
Do we fight against Kerry? Absolutely! Why? Because, at least for me, Kerry is about personal power and control and not about liberty and justice for all.
Regardless of how the Demagogic Party might try to tell you that Bob, me, and Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are the slaves of partisan domestic politics; we aren't! We believe in liberty and justice for all!
For me, at this time in the world, it's Arabia. Forty years ago it was the Soviet Union. We won that one, sorta, and we can win this one.
Bob, Do you want to reply. |
I just registered for the sole purpose of responding to this post.
It gave me chills to read what you wrote.
I so appreciate your service to our country. Truly I admire the men and women of the United States military and believe if NOT for their service and sacrafice there would be no America.
Of course, if Kerry gets elected there still may not be an America when he gets thru with it....but, until then....THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart.
_________________
God forbid Kerry/Edwards....please. |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | carpro wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | carpro wrote: | | ASPB wrote: | | carpro wrote: | I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed.
It's been joked about for months. |
Many of them were. The Feb 28th film however was probably taken immediately after the action and was not the result of a return trip for re-enactment.
Why? Because most people that were there at the time recall that no one went back up that particular canal until March 13th. |
Not a return trip but still re-enacted or posed. Right? |
Posed like anyone poses for a photo or video.
Re-enacted? No. I assume we are going by the normal definition of re-enacted. Just because he took a few seconds of himself walking with an M-16 where that incident occured, doesn't mean he's re-enacting anything.
I'm sure, sooner or later, someone else will see the video and say the same thing the other guy did -- that there was nothing all that remarkable about it.
Doug |
Doug, are you saying that the film of Kerry triumphantly waving an RPG is AS IT HAPPENED right after he shot the wounded VC and retrieved it?
If not, it's a re-enactment. |
If he had the B-40 in hand (I think he might have, but I'm really not sure), it would be similar to guys taking their photo holding an AK-47.
If the filming was done soon after the shooting (and I would think that's when it was done), it would have been, ohh, perhaps 10-5-20 minutes after.
If it's re-enacting, it's going to have to be more than him walking a few steps with an M-16 and/or a B-40 in his hand. He would have to be retracing his steps, acting out what he did and/or showing the dead VC, etc.
Doug |
It seems you're struggling a little, Doug.
After reading York's summary of Sennotts visit, I can see why. |
Could give me a link to that? I don't believe I've seen it. A guy named Keller, I believe that's his name, saw the film after reading Sennott's piece, and totally disagreed with Sennott's take on it.
Remember, Sennott is the guy who said Kerry went out and bought the camera AFTER the incidents happened, and then returned to flim a "re-enactment".
As I've said, I didn't get the feel that Sennott had an agenda, but that he was poor at what he does -- write for a living.
Doug |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Admin note:
Are we going for a world record for enclosed quotes in this thread?
Ladies and gentlemen, please make an effort to pare some of the older quotes from your replies. It's not THAT difficult. If you feel too challenged in that regard, please hit the "post reply" icon (bottom left) rather than the "quote" icon...most of us will be able to figure out just who or what you are responding to.
Thanks,
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Doug, go back up the thread just a little to RB Shirley's post. He has York's article.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | | Doug, go back up the thread just a little to RB Shirley's post. He has York's article. |
Thanks -- I'm going back home to Indiana for a family reunion.
I'll comment when I return. I'm swearing off "things political" for the weekend
Doug |
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Big Kahuna
Lieutenant
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 219
Location: SE Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:27 am Post subject: |
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The fact that people are taken in by this Commie Rat is appalling. He was a coward and has done more to hurt the military than any man living. How does he get away with it? Are people that stupid?
_________________
Top 10 Weasels.com is where Kerry is Weasel #1 |
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Marine's Wife
PO3
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:39 am Post subject: subject |
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| To answer B.K. YES! -Unfortunately some of them are! |
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Thank-you to the Military
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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He gets away with it soley because the media will NOT cover anything that puts their "boy" in a bad light.
Of all the ex-military men who knew him, the ONLY interview I saw yesterday was with one of the VERY few who support him and this clown was singing Kerry's praises...it was sickening to say the least.
_________________
God forbid Kerry/Edwards....please. |
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