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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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I didnt think I could get any angrier about this, but as the reports keep coming, it just gets worse...ransom payout seem to be true, and Berlusconi has done it before
From the Washington Times
long article, just a couple snips here
emphisis mine
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050307-120131-5769r.htm
Italians kept U.S. forces in dark
By John Phillips
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
| Quote: | ROME -- Italian agents likely withheld information from U.S. counterparts about a cash-for-freedom deal with gunmen holding an Italian hostage for fear that Americans might block the trade, Italian news reports said yesterday.
The decision by operatives of Italy's SISMI military intelligence service to keep the CIA in the dark about the deal for the release of reporter Giuliana Sgrena, might have "short-circuited" communications with U.S. forces controlling the road from Baghdad to the city's airport, the newspaper La Stampa said.
That would help explain why American troops opened fire on a car whisking the released hostage to a waiting airplane, wounding Miss Sgrena and killing the Italian intelligence operative who had just negotiated her release.
~~snip
Miss Sgrena, a reporter for the Communist daily Il Manifesto, charged yesterday that U.S. forces might have deliberately targeted her because Washington opposes Italy's policy of dealing with kidnappers.
"The United States doesn't approve of this [ransom] policy and so they try to stop it in any way possible," the veteran war reporter, 57, told Sky Italia TV.
~snip
But La Stampa also quoted diplomatic sources saying vital information was withheld from the Americans.
"Italian intelligence decided to free Sgrena paying a sum to the kidnappers without informing American colleagues in Iraq who, if they had known about this, would have had to oppose it, to have impeded the operation," sources said.
"If this was the case, it could explain why American intelligence had not informed the American military commands about the operation and thus the patrol did not expect the car with the Italians."
Whatever the truth, the affair aroused public opinion and put pressure on Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to take a tough line with President Bush.
Mr. Berlusconi won plaudits last year when Mr. Calipari obtained the release of two young volunteers kidnapped in Iraq known as the two Simonas, also through payment of a multimillion dollar ransom.
That money reputedly came not from the state, but from the personal fortune of Mr. Berlusconi, a media magnate who is Italy's richest man. |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| well it looks like the fools have set an Italian precedent. A no-brainer to terrorists - kidnapping Italians pays off. |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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here's an example of where that money is going
from the thread below
"Al Iraqiya TV exposes terror cells(profile of a terrorist)"
| Quote: | He confessed of performing several attacks against the IP and the ING men killing a total of 15 IP men and 6 ING soldiers.
It's very upsetting to know that pathetic men like this criminal charged 250000 ID (less than 200$!) for each operation they perform regardless of the number of the "targets" being eliminated.
A second terrorist described in his confession how he took part in kidnapping 6 IP men and blowing up the police station in the town of Msayab using a number of IEDs and later executing the 6 policemen. All this for 250000 ID for each one of the 8 members of the gang! |
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rparrott21
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 760
Location: Mckinney, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Here it is..
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| blue9t3 wrote: | Wasnt she the one sniveling a few weeks ago pleading for italy to get out? kidnapping does pay good!  |
 She is evil. She works for a communist newspaper and supports communism. She also wrote many an article against the US, the coalition, and the Iraqi's.
The money paid for her release is no less than blood money for it will go to purchase weapons and IEDs and God only knows what else. What were the Italians thinking? Obviously, they weren't! |
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rparrott21
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 760
Location: Mckinney, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:28 am Post subject: |
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Way to go for funding the bad guys for 10 mil...nice going..
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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from Drudge:
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050308/2005-03-08T142450Z_01_L08618213_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAQ-ITALY-SHOOTING-DC.html
Italy Demands Justice from U.S. Over Iraq Death
Mar 8, 9:24 AM (ET)
By Crispian Balmer
ROME (Reuters) - Italy's foreign minister rejected Tuesday a U.S. account of how its forces killed an Italian intelligence agent in Iraq and urged Washington to punish any soldiers found guilty of wrongdoing in the shooting.
"It is our duty to demand truth and justice," Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini told parliament.
Agent Nicola Calipari has been hailed as a hero in Italy after he died shielding a newly freed hostage from U.S. gunfire as they drove to Baghdad airport last Friday.
The killing has strained ties between the United States and Italy, which has been one of President Bush's staunchest allies in Europe over the war in Iraq.
Fini dismissed speculation that U.S. forces deliberately fired on the Italians, but he said a U.S. military statement on the incident appeared to be at odds with what actually happened.
"It was certainly an accident, an accident caused by a series of circumstances and coincidences," Fini said.
"But this doesn't mean, in fact it makes it necessary, to demand that events are clarified ... to identify those responsible, and if people are to blame then to request and ensure that the guilty parties are punished," he added.
The U.S. military has said its soldiers fired on the Italians' car after it approached a checkpoint at speed and failed to heed signals to slow down.
But in a detailed reconstruction, Fini insisted that the Italians had been driving slowly and had received no warning.
APOLOGY
Fini said that immediately after the shooting, U.S. soldiers had apologized profusely to freed hostage Giuliana Sgrena and an unnamed Italian intelligence officer who survived the fire.
"The government has a duty to point out that the reconstruction of the tragic event that I have set out ... does not coincide totally with what has been said so far by the U.S. authorities," Fini said.
President Bush has promised an investigation. In previous "friendly-fire" deaths, the Pentagon has not publicly admitted to any culpability on the part of U.S. forces.
Italy deployed 3,000 troops to Iraq following the fall of Baghdad and has made clear that it will not withdraw its troops despite Calipari's death. But it fears any hint of a U.S. whitewash over the incident will fuel anti-American sentiment.
Sgrena, an award-winning journalist who was held hostage for a month in Iraq before Calipari masterminded her release, has suggested the Italians were fired at because the United States opposes Rome's practice of negotiating with kidnappers.
The White House has rejected that suggestion.
FATAL MISSION
The Islamic militant group that held Sgrena hostage said in a tape released Tuesday that they had rejected offers of a ransom for her release. Italian newspapers have reported that between $6 million to $8 million was handed over by Italy.
Fini Tuesday gave a long account of Calipari's fatal mission to Baghdad but made no mention of any ransom. He said Rome had never considered a military swoop to free Sgrena for fear such an operation would endanger her life.
He said Calipari arrived in Baghdad Friday afternoon after establishing contact with the kidnappers. He checked in with U.S. authorities at the airport before driving off with an Italian colleague to meet an Iraqi middleman.
The middleman took them to Sgrena, who was seated in the wreckage of a car, dressed in black robes and wearing a mask.
On the drive back to the airport, the Italians left the lights on in the car to help identify them to U.S. checkpoints.
As they neared the airport, the car slowed to about 40-km/h because the road was wet and because the driver had to make a sharp turning. Half way around the curve, a searchlight picked out the car and guns opened fire for 10-15 seconds, Fini said.
The intelligence officer who survived the attack was forced to kneel in the road until the soldiers realized who he was.
"Two young Americans approached our officer and, demoralized, repeatedly apologized for what had happened," Fini said. |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | On the drive back to the airport, the Italians left the lights on in the car to help identify them to U.S. checkpoints.
As they neared the airport, the car slowed to about 40-km/h because the road was wet and because the driver had to make a sharp turning. Half way around the curve, a searchlight picked out the car and guns opened fire for 10-15 seconds, Fini said. |
The story keeps changing!
In her article yesterday, written for her paper Il Manifesto, Sgrena says:
| Quote: | The car kept on the road, going under an underpass full of puddles and almost losing control to avoid them. We all incredibly laughed. It was liberating. Losing control of the car in a street full of water in Baghdad and maybe wind up in a bad car accident after all I had been through would really be a tale I would not be able to tell. Nicola Calipari sat next to me. The driver twice called the embassy and in Italy that we were heading towards the airport that I knew was heavily patrolled by U.S. troops. They told me that we were less than a kilometer away...when...I only remember fire. At that point, a rain of fire and bullets hit us, shutting up forever the cheerful voices of a few minutes earlier.
The driver started yelling that we were Italians. "We are Italians, we are Italians." Nicola Calipari threw himself on me to protect me and immediately, I repeat, immediately I heard his last breath as he was dying on me. I must have felt physical pain. I didn't know why. But then I realized my mind went immediately to the things the captors had told me. They declared that they were committed to the fullest to freeing me but I had to be careful, "the Americans don't want you to go back." Then when they had told me I considered those words superfluous and ideological. At that moment they risked acquiring the flavor of the bitterest of truths, at this time I cannot tell you the rest. |
She says nothing of having the car's interior lights on, and apparently going fast enough to almost
lose control of the car, then a rain of fire and bullets
Now, today the claim is the car was only going 40-km/h which is about 25 mph.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/06/il.manifesto/ |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I love John Gibson:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149682,00.html
| Quote: | Rush to Judgment
Tuesday, March 08, 2005
By John Gibson
Giuliana Sgrena, the Italian journalist hostage, is now saying that American troops shot at her car on purpose trying to kill her.
The White House says the claim is absurd.
In addition, let me point out some other absurdities:
First, Ms. Sgrena is from a communist newspaper called Il Manifesto. So how many of you think Il Manifesto sent her to Iraq to report on how well Iraq is doing after its first free election? None of you? What a smart bunch. Of course it didn't.
She is an ardent anti-American who was going to Iraq to do a hatchet job on the American effort there and — silly her — she didn't realize the Iraqi insurgent kidnapers didn't really care if she thought they were noble freedom fighters. They just wanted her sorry bones to ransom.
What's more, she now admits they treated her well. Gee, now, that's a surprise. When we all saw that tape of Ms. Sgrena begging for her life with her hands held in prayer — imagine a reporter for a communist paper praying — everybody thought things must really be rough. Now it turns out they told her what to say and how to say it and she acted her part.
Also, The Washington Times is reporting Monday that the $6 million ransom was not Italian government money, but personal funds of the media mogul Silvio Berlusconi — who just happens to be the prime minister.
So what do you think the chances are that Ms. Sgrena cooperated with her captors to squeeze some cash out of what she would regard as a capitalist pig, the media mogul and prime minister Mr. Berlusconi?
Think I'm stretching there?
In any case, she's now blaming the Americans for shooting up her car which tried to speed through a checkpoint.
I'm blaming her for thinking she could wander around Iraq unharmed because she is a sympathizer with the insurgents, then for getting herself snatched, then for getting the prime minister to put up his own money, which led to the death of one of the Italian intelligence agents who came to save her sorry rear end.
She's right — it is disgusting. I am disgusted with her.
That's My Word. |
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oasis
Lieutenant
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 201
Location: Florida, want some sun? LoL!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Rdtf wrote: | I love John Gibson:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149682,00.html
| Quote: | Rush to Judgment
Tuesday, March 08, 2005
By John Gibson
Giuliana Sgrena, the Italian journalist hostage, is now saying that American troops shot at her car on purpose trying to kill her.
The White House says the claim is absurd.
In addition, let me point out some other absurdities:
First, Ms. Sgrena is from a communist newspaper called Il Manifesto. So how many of you think Il Manifesto sent her to Iraq to report on how well Iraq is doing after its first free election? None of you? What a smart bunch. Of course it didn't.
She is an ardent anti-American who was going to Iraq to do a hatchet job on the American effort there and — silly her — she didn't realize the Iraqi insurgent kidnapers didn't really care if she thought they were noble freedom fighters. They just wanted her sorry bones to ransom.
What's more, she now admits they treated her well. Gee, now, that's a surprise. When we all saw that tape of Ms. Sgrena begging for her life with her hands held in prayer — imagine a reporter for a communist paper praying — everybody thought things must really be rough. Now it turns out they told her what to say and how to say it and she acted her part.
Also, The Washington Times is reporting Monday that the $6 million ransom was not Italian government money, but personal funds of the media mogul Silvio Berlusconi — who just happens to be the prime minister.
So what do you think the chances are that Ms. Sgrena cooperated with her captors to squeeze some cash out of what she would regard as a capitalist pig, the media mogul and prime minister Mr. Berlusconi?
Think I'm stretching there?
In any case, she's now blaming the Americans for shooting up her car which tried to speed through a checkpoint.
I'm blaming her for thinking she could wander around Iraq unharmed because she is a sympathizer with the insurgents, then for getting herself snatched, then for getting the prime minister to put up his own money, which led to the death of one of the Italian intelligence agents who came to save her sorry rear end.
She's right — it is disgusting. I am disgusted with her.
That's My Word. |
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Hello,
Good Report
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Please donate to the.. RED CROSS |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | shawa
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 582
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:53 pm Post subject:
It's not Stockholm Syndrome.
She is a champion of the insurgents!!
Her employer, Il Manifesto. Italy's Communist newspaper.
She's a life-long Communist, anti-American, anti-war activist!!
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I haven’t been able to be on line for a few days but this is the deal. Shawa was on to it first.
Lady in question works for the most prominent newspaper in all the communist world..... I do believe this would likely make you a communist, I don't think they have a very 'open door' policy when hiring.
During the very first Anti American protests in Europe and then later Iraq you may note the presence of the highly organized groups under the big red banners. These are the Communists.
As the election in Iraq was a resounding success the entire country has a vested interest in the future success of current operations and the independent, free hegemony of Iraq to come.. Everyone except the remnants of the Communists.
I don't know about senora Signora but I do know if I were a ranking member of the communist movement globally, say working for the most prominent Communist rag still printing..... Hey I think I'd look up some buddies if I were going in to put a story out about the travesties of Democracy in Iraq.
Low and behold I find out my comrades got no money to go out to the quality restaurants I've grown accustomed to fighting for the 'common man' and what the hell I'm Italian I know a thing or two about Kidnapping as a livelihood.... What the hell.
I got two Questions, What is the Drivers Story..... in it's totality?
And has anyone put the U.S. commander in the field in for a decoration. He's got my vote. A bunch of cars running a roadblock like that can cost a couple of hundred lives in the blink of an eye. God bless the U.S. soldier that put a stop to it. |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe this 'incident' will help to dismiss the charges against Lt. Pantano. |
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PhantomSgt
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 972
Location: GUAM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Well Italy learned a valuable lesson with this botched extraction. Ask permission first before you come play games in our sandbox. The Italian Secret Agent's machismo got him smoked, not the actions of the Grunts trying to secure the area.
I’m sure the driver blew thru an initial checkpoint and the checkpoint radioed ahead with orders to a waiting ambush team for a vehicle halt with extreme prejudice.
_________________
Retired AF E-8
Independent that leans right of center. |
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AMOS
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 558
Location: IOWA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: I'm sorry........... |
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| I'm sorry this incident happened. I really am. I'm also typing this with my toes. I really am. |
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