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SBD Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 1022
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: |
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There's something more here than what is being portrayed. I tend to believe that Guiliana was never kidnapped in the first place and it was all staged for political reasons and the money.
Let's start with the group that kidnapped her. A new group that sprung up immediately following the Historic Iraqi Elections. What better way to cast doubt on the elections than to have a kidnapping.
On the day she was supposedly kidnapped, she had just called into her newspaper to let them know she was all right. Also reported is that a co-worker was speaking with Guilana when she was kidnapped and claimed to hear numerous gun shots.
Now lets move ahead to the video taped "plea for help" that the terrorist made. I am of Italian decent, so I can understand what she is saying in her plea until she repeats the entire plea in French just in case the Italian government is taken over by France I guess. Give me a break, her plea was without emotion and her idea to repeat it in French was more than obvious propaganda.
I hope someone follows the money because it did not go to Iraqi captors but instead is in the hands of Communist Terrorists.
Click Here to see the Video Plea
February 16, 2005
Italian Hostage Video Released (UPDATE)
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/067728.php
A new video has surfaced of Giuliana Sgrena. In the video she claims the only way her life will be saved is if the occupation of Iraq ends.
Sgrena pleas are heard in both Italian and French. The video also superimposes the Arabic words "Mujahadin Without Borders" on the video.
The Associated Press translates her pleas:
You must end the occupation, it's the only way we can get out of this situation...
I ask the Italian government, the Italian people struggling against the occupation, I ask my husband, 'Please, help me You must do all you can to end the occupation. I'm counting on you, you can help me'...
Show all the pictures I have taken of the Iraqis, of the children hit by the cluster bombs, of the women. I beg you. Help me, help me to demand the withdrawal of the troops, help me spare my life.
These people don't want foreigners here, nobody should come to Iraq at this time. Not even journalists. Nobody.
Thousands of people are in prison, children, the elderly, women are raped, people die because they have nothing to eat, no electricity, no water.
What is interesting about the plea is that Giuliana Sgrena was already trying to end the occupation before she was kidnapped. Further, the Mujahadin Without Borders group is previously unknown and is a different organization than the Islamic Jihad Organization that initially claimed her abduction. Moreover, her claim that the jihadis do not want foreigners in the country is simply empirically false. What the jihadis do not want is non-dhimmi infidels in the country. Foreigners who wish to fight the 'Zionist-Crusader Forces' are always welcome.
While Sgrena seems to be visibly shaken in the video, the fact that she believes exactly what the terrorists believe, namely that the US is an evil aggressor, makes it somewhat difficult to swallow that she would actually be killed. Unlike other hostages, Sgrena was in Iraq for the sole purpose of producing anti-American propaganda.
Still, the video does seem to be authentic. Our initial reaction that this possibly could be a hoax seems less plausible now. Even so, it seems unlikely that she will be killed. In any event, anti-American activist with an agenda or not, we pray for her safe return.
However, we would also remind readers that several Americans are still being held hostage in Iraq. They are: Roy Hallums, Dean Sadek, Tim Bell, and Bill Bradley.
Update: Confederate Yankee chimes in with this:
A vigorous anti-war protestor, Sgrena's video was shown just hours before Italy's Senate started voting on extending the nation's 3,000-member military mission in Iraq until June.
He also points out this MSNBC story and notes that Sgrena seems to be directing the video:
At one point, her eyes watering as she struggled to recite her message, she waved the camera to stop.
If the intent of the video was to influence today's vote in Italy, it failed. BBC:
The Italian Senate voted by 141 to 112 to extend the country's 3,000-strong military presence in Iraq until June.
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scotty61 LCDR
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 419 Location: Glyndon MN
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think not letting the US know what was going on smells to high heaven. They are spining it as they were afraid that the US would veto it if they paid a ransom. It that was the case, once they had Sgrena they could have informed the US and got a clear pass to the airport. They also could have taken her and seen if she needed any medical attention. Instead they are speeding to the airport as if they had a small window to whisk her out of the country. But why? Me thinks that the Italians wanted her in Italy ASAP so the US would be unable to question her about her captors and glean information of their whereabouts and identification. I suspect that this was part of the deal as well as ransom. _________________ John Kerry. A Neville Chamberlain for our times. |
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Uisguex Jack Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 613
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | children hit by the cluster bombs |
This has been a communist BUZZ phrase for nearly thirty years now.
Quote: | Let's start with the group that kidnapped her. A new group that sprung up immediately following the Historic Iraqi Elections |
This is something I did not know and seems somewhat germain.
Quote: | Sgrena's video was shown just hours before Italy's Senate started voting on extending the nation's 3,000-member military mission in Iraq until June. |
This I did not know and seems somewhat more than somewhat germain. |
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FreeFall LCDR
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 421
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:04 am Post subject: |
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According to the Northeast Intelligency network, her kidnapping was a sham.
http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/article.asp?id=112
3/9/2005 - Giuliana Sgrena - Communist Agent By Sean Osborne
9 March 2005: Juliana Sgrena, a virulently anti-American Italian Communist who happens to also be a writer for the Italian Communist daily newspaper Il Manifesto is reportedly taken "hostage" by Iraqi "insurgents" who in all of the actual ground combat in 2003 and ever since have never harmed a hair on the head of any Communist in Iraq.
((We immediately recall the panicked flight of the Russian Ambassador to Iraq in a convoy of 8 vehicles in early April 2003. The convoy was enroute from Baghdad to Damascus, Syria and emerged from a formation of Iraqi tanks and Armored Personnel Carriers directly in front of an element of the US 3rd Infantry Division, the 3/7 Cavalry, which was closing in on western Baghdad. The Russian convoy intentionally began moving at a high rate of speed towards the American blocking position. Remember - this is the same general area as the recent incident involving Giuliana Sgrena. Reportedly, and rightfully, US forces shot up the Russian convoy, but it managed to proceed through or around the American forces. The convoy finally stopped for the evening in a town west of Baghdad -- that town is now famous as al-Falluja. The Russian were welcomed, bandaged, fed, housed, refueled and sent on their way to Damascus. In all of that panicked rush to get out of Baghdad, the Russian ambassador returned to his embassy within days. We still do not know who or what was in that convoy, but it was urgent or serious enough to risk death in a combat zone for.))
Sgrena is released after her benefactors reportedly paid the "kidnappers" between 6 and 8 million dollar "ransom". Sgrena then goes on to relate how her "captors" told her words to the effect "keep your head down... the American don't want you to leave." Sgrena says she was not ill treated by her captors (the only truthful statement she has made to date!)
Then once emerged from the secret drop-off point and while on the Baghdad-Baghdad International Airport highway the pickup truck rented by Nicola Calipari approached the checkpoint manned by soldiers of the US 3rd Infantry Division in excess of 100 miles per hour!!! Giuliana Sgrena says they were not speeding? The truck was observed by US forces as hydroplaning twice and nearly losing control as it approached the American military checkpoint. Why hasn't anyone questioned the complete and total lack of coordination between the Italian Secret Service and the American CIA? Are we not allies in the same Coalition?
I believe Juliana Sgrena's "abduction" by "Iraqi insurgents" was a gambit and a total charade with at least four goals:
a) allows the Euro-Communists to directly aid and abet their Ba'athist allies b) provides the Ba'athists with several million dollars worth of needed cold cash c) causes an incident in an attempt to embarrass the US military in Iraq d) which in turn causes political damage to the Coalition by playing into the hands of Italian public sentiments, and mimics the political goals of the horrendous train bombing event of march 11, 2004 in Madrid, Spain.
This event in no way passes the "smell test"! |
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shawa CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 2004
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:54 am Post subject: |
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http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/15/news/baghdad.html
Quote: | Details On Capture Emerge
By James Glanz
The New York Times
Wednesday, March 16, 2005
Iraqis fault Italian officials on cooperation
BAGHDAD-The Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena screamed as her masked abductors pulled her into a car and began wildly shooting pistols and Kalashnikovs on Feb. 4, forcing a lone security guard at the gate to Baghdad University to take cover, according to an independent Iraqi investigation of the kidnapping.
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The kidnappers, eight men, then sped away with Sgrena in a gray Opel and a black Kia - leaving her terrified driver and translator behind - and took her to a series of safe houses in the northwestern Baghdad neighborhood of Gazalea.
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Those are some of the first clear details to emerge on the kidnapping of Sgrena, who was released on March 5 after intensive negotiations between the abductors and Italian intelligence agents. One of those agents was killed when American troops fired on the car taking Sgrena to freedom.
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Despite the successful release of the hostage, the Italians have angered the Iraqi major crimes unit that has been investigating the kidnapping by refusing to share intelligence on the case, even after Sgrena was freed, said Colonel Jabbar Anwar, chief of the major crimes unit in the sector of Baghdad that contains Gazalea.
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The ring that committed the kidnapping was a profit-making organization that is likely to repeat the crime, the colonel said. The Italians could have freed the hostage and also helped to break that ring, he said, but they chose not to.
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"They made a big mistake when they let the criminals go, especially if they gave them money," Jabbar said, referring to reports in the Italian press - and denied by the Italian government - that a ransom as large as $8 million was paid. "It gives them more power."
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Erminio Amelio, one of the Rome public magistrates leading the investigating into Giuliana Sgrena's abduction, said that there had been no intent to deprive the Iraqi police of information in their investigation.
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"I don't know what type of relationships our people have with the Iraqis in Baghdad," Amelio said. "Our people have a strong relationship with the Americans, and the Americans deal more with the Iraqis.
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"We haven't received any request for information. Maybe they have approached some Italians there in Iraq, I don't know, but we haven't been asked officially."
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Jabbar and a second officer in the crimes unit said the investigation suggested that the kidnappers had been tipped off to Sgrena's itinerary that day - she conducted lengthy interviews at a nearby mosque - and that the kidnappers probably had a plan in place before she ever arrived on the scene.
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An Italian photographer, Franco Pagetti, who had helped arrange Sgrena's visit to the mosque and left before she was abducted, said security guards at the mosque gate were acting suspiciously.
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The Iraqi investigators said they obtained highly specific tips from two separate informants about where Sgrena was taken in Gazalea. The first arrest came when a resident in one of the houses was found to have an array of phony identification cards, including one to the U.S. Embassy.
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The three other suspects are still at large. |
_________________ “I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Rdtf CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 2209 Location: BUSHville
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Shawa wrote:
Quote: | Jabbar and a second officer in the crimes unit said the investigation suggested that the kidnappers had been tipped off to Sgrena's itinerary that day - she conducted lengthy interviews at a nearby mosque - and that the kidnappers probably had a plan in place before she ever arrived on the scene.. |
I'd be looking at this guy closer-
Quote: | An Italian photographer, Franco Pagetti, who had helped arrange Sgrena's visit to the mosque and left before she was abducted, said security guards at the mosque gate were acting suspiciously. |
Hmmm what's this about?
Quote: | The first arrest came when a resident in one of the houses was found to have an array of phony identification cards, including one to the U.S. Embassy |
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FreeFall LCDR
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 421
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Here are photos supposedly of her car. It doesn't look like she was fired on with 300-400 bullets either. She also claimed tanks were firing at her, but the car doesn't look like that's true either.
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/070580.php |
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shawa CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 2004
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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FreeFall
Although those pictures are all over, that is apparently NOT the vehicle.
From the Washington Times article I posted on the previous page of this
thread:
Quote: | The left-leaning Italian newspaper La Repubblica reported yesterday that Mr. Calipari decided not to use available escort protection from the elite commandos who protect Italy's Baghdad embassy.
Instead, he rented an inconspicuous pickup truck to recover Miss Sgrena, wrote La Repubblica's top investigative reporter, Giuseppe D'Avanzo.
"In Iraq, the United States makes the rules and the Italian ally also must respect them. If it wants to break them, it must do so with a double game and some crafty tricks," Mr. D'Avanzo wrote.
Italian magistrates have opened an inquiry into the killing and are arranging for the truck to be flown to Italy for examination by ballistic experts, judicial sources said. The magistrates also have obtained from the U.S. military the cellular phone that Mr. Calipari was carrying when he was shot.
Analysis of calls logged on the cellular phone might allow investigators to determine the speed at which the vehicle was traveling when U.S. troops opened fire on it, the sources say. |
Also, from your post above:
Quote: | Then once emerged from the secret drop-off point and while on the Baghdad-Baghdad International Airport highway the pickup truck rented by Nicola Calipari approached the checkpoint manned by soldiers of the US 3rd Infantry Division in excess of 100 miles per hour!!! |
We haven't seen anything of this pickup truck because the Italians
shipped it back to Italy for THEIR "investigation" !!!!
I sure hope U.S. investigators got pictures before it was whisked out
of the country. If it is in the custody of the Italians, who knows how
many more bullet holes they will put in it to back up Sgrena's account. _________________ “I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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tony54 PO2
Joined: 01 Sep 2004 Posts: 369 Location: cleveland, ohio
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Segrena Anti-American Communist reporter went to Iraq to get an Anti-American scoop.
When there was nothing drastic to report on, she created her own.
The hostage situation was fake, the release was fake and she made the driver go through a checkpoint without slowing down, knowing full well the American troops would shoot at the vehicle.
Too bad she didn't catch one between the eyes.
But she knew they would shoot so she propably ducked beforehand. |
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Rdtf CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 2209 Location: BUSHville
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Re:
[quote="Rdtf"]
I'd be looking at this guy closer-
Quote: | An Italian photographer, Franco Pagetti, who had helped arrange Sgrena's visit to the mosque and left before she was abducted, said security guards at the mosque gate were acting suspiciously. |
He's been in Iraq for a while -check this out:
http://www.polarisimages.com/Portfolios/Photographers/Franco_Pagetti/
Polaris Images
A selection of images by Franco Pagetti
http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/040503fa_fact
Quote: | The New Yorker
Fact
Letter from Baghdad
THE UPRISING
by JON LEE ANDERSON
Shia and Sunnis put aside their differences.
Issue of 2004-05-03
Posted 2004-04-26
SNIP
Jamaluddin’s account corresponds in general to the report from an Iraqi judge that led to the arrest warrant for Moqtada al-Sadr, the extremist Shiite leader who has been more or less at war with the Coalition for the past several weeks. Eyewitnesses said that Sadr’s men killed Khoei. On April 3rd this year, nearly a year after the murder, the Coalition arrested Mustafa Yaqoubi, Sadr’s deputy, as an accomplice.
SNIP
Moqtada al-Sadr was said to be holed up in his mosque in Kufa, and on the morning of the sixth I drove there with two photographers, Samantha Appleton and Franco Pagetti. We went in two cars. The roads were full of Shiite pilgrims beginning their walk—in some cases, all the way from Baghdad—toward Karbala, where, in four days’ time, Arbayeen, the festival marking the end of the forty-day mourning period for Imam Hussein, would take place. They strolled along, most of them wearing black and carrying flags. One group led a camel covered with a multicolored cloth. Little tents and stands and open-air kitchens had been set up with pots of rice and soup, in keeping with the Shiite custom of offering food and drink to the pilgrims. No American military convoys were visible.
At a leafy curve in the road on the outskirts of Kufa, a score or more armed men, most with their faces masked by kaffiyehs and wearing the black turbans of the Mahdi Army, controlled a checkpoint. They were brandishing RPGs and Kalashnikovs at cars. Several of them had yellow U.S. Army-issue grenades. We had been following seven Red Crescent ambulances for a while, and as we drove up, the fighters at the checkpoint and the drivers of the ambulances began shouting Sadr’s name. The drivers had decided to join the uprising. A little farther on, at a bridge over the Euphrates, a sentry was wearing a flak jacket with the word “police” in yellow letters in English and “Mahdi Army” scrawled in Arabic script above it. Fighters were stationed all over the square around Sadr’s mosque, but we were told that Sadr had moved to Najaf, so we drove there, passing through roadblocks around the shrine of Imam Ali, where a Sadr aide was giving a press conference in a small courtroom in the alleyway leading to their office. When he was through, fighters danced in a circle, shouting, “Down with America! Down with Israel!” for the benefit of photographers and cameramen.
A week later, I was in my room at the Palestine when Franco Pagetti telephoned from the lobby to tell me that Sadr’s deputy from Kadhimiya, Hazem al-Araji, was being arrested downstairs. He had come to the hotel for an interview with an Italian journalist and had been seized as he was leaving. By the time I got down there, Hazem was in the middle of a scrum of shouting people, including several American soldiers, who were trying to drag him away. He was making calls on his cell phone as the scene grew more and more chaotic. A group of sheikhs in head scarves who had been attending a meeting leaped into the fray. They pushed through the mob and shouted that they would not allow Hazem to be arrested. The American soldiers said that they didn’t intend to arrest him—they just wanted to “talk” to him. After about fifteen minutes, the mob, with Hazem at the center, moved into the conference room where the sheikhs had been meeting. Hazem sat down and made more phone calls, but the soldiers finally managed to get him to his feet. They maneuvered him out of the room and took him away in an armored personnel carrier.
SNIP
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http://www.hongpong.com/hp-archives/2004/04/04/the_storm_at_hand.html
HongPong.com
Quote: | New York Times reports "Violent Disturbances Rack Iraq From Baghdad to Southern Cities."
Iraq was racked today by its most violent civil disturbances since the occupation started, with a coordinated Shiite uprising spreading across the country, from the slums of Baghdad to several cities in the south. An American soldier and a Salvadoran soldier were killed in the unrest, news agencies reported.
By day's end, witnesses said Shiite militiamen controlled the city of Kufa, south of Baghdad, with armed men loyal to a radical cleric occupying the town's police stations and checkpoints.
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At nightfall today, the Sadr City neighborhood shook with explosions and tank and machine gun fire. Black smoke choked the sky. The streets were lined with armed militiamen, dressed in all black. American tanks surrounded the area. Attack helicopters thundered overhead.
"The occupation is over!" people on the streets yelled. "We are now controlled by Sadr. The Americans should stay out."
Witnesses said Mr. Sadr's militiamen had tried to take over three police stations in Sadr City, a poor, mostly Shiite neighborhood of northern Baghdad named after Mr. Sadr's father.
Franco Pagetti, an Italian photographer, said he was caught in the crossfire and witnessed several American tanks firing into the ground.
"The tanks were shooting into the pavement, not at the height of the people," Mr. Pagetti said. "It looked like they were trying to clear the streets." Mr. Pagetti also said he had watched a group of militiamen launch three rocket propelled grenades at American Humvees but the militiamen had missed each time. "The situation is getting worse," Mr. Pagetti said. "I saw injured people getting put in cars. The people said they had been wounded by American helicopters."
As the fighting raged, Mr. Sadr called on his followers to "terrorize" the enemy as demonstrations were no longer any use. Last week, his weekly newspaper, Hawza, was shut down by American authorities after it had been accused of inciting violence. The closure began a week of protests that grew bigger and more unruly at each turn.
"There is no use for demonstrations, as your enemy loves to terrify and suppress opinions, and despises peoples," Mr. Sadr said in a statement distributed by his office in Kufa today.
"I ask you not to resort to demonstrations because they have become a losing card and we should seek other ways," he told his followers. "Terrorize your enemy, as we cannot remain silent over its violations." |
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Rdtf CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 2209 Location: BUSHville
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | A week later, I was in my room at the Palestine when Franco Pagetti telephoned from the lobby to tell me that Sadr’s deputy from Kadhimiya, Hazem al-Araji, was being arrested downstairs. He had come to the hotel for an interview with an Italian journalist and had been seized as he was leaving. |
To stir the pot a bit and just to make sure this doesn't get lost, - don't you wonder who this journalist was, and maybe, just maybe if this whole thing began as a payback from Al Sadyr? Hmmm and this Italian photographer that was capable of setting up Sgrena's meeting at the mosque (isn't that a stretch to imagine? Must be really connected) and he just happened to leave before she was grabbed - and he is connected to both of these events... |
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