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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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 Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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I found this interesting and it fits with the dates in question!!
http://conservativevoice.blogspot.com/
Thursday, October 28, 2004
John Kerry's Dishonorable Discharge
Through a very reliable source, I received a copy of the following e-mail to Sean Hannity asking his help in exposing the truth about John Kerry's discharge papers from the US Navy. The author is a retired former Navy lawyer and he references the former personal lawyer to then Secretary of the Navy J. William Middendorf.
If these two gentlemen can shed light on the truth of John Kerry's record, then the American people have a right to know.
Subject: Fw: THE JIMMY CARTER LEGACY CONTINUES
Sean,
I was on active duty as a U.S. Navy lawyer when all of this was going on some 25 to 30 years ago, and so was Mark F. Sullivan, who at all relevant times was the personal lawyer to J. William Middendorf, then the Secretary of the Navy. We remember.
We are trying to break this absolutely true story nationwide, i.e., Fox News, C Span, and hopefully all the major networks. We are positive that John Kerry was one of those dishonorably dismissed from the Navy for collaborating with the Viet Cong, after he was released from active duty but still in the Navy, and for a totally unauthorized trip to Hanoi. He later got an "honorable" separation in 1978, some 12 years after joining the Navy, under President Carter's "Amnesty Program" for draft dodgers, deserters, and other malcontents who fled to Canada and Holland, among other places, to avoid military service to our country.
This is why he has refused, and continues to refuse, to release all of his Navy records: they reflect that he was Dishonorably Dismissed from the United States Naval Service. If they do not (which they do), he would have released them to the public. Again, he has not done so, because he well knows that the truth would kill his challenge to President Bush.
Sincerely,
DONALD L. NELSON
CAPT, JAGC, USNR
(Ret.)
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:59 am Post subject: Re: just thinking out loud |
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| manelly wrote: |
Sometime between Jan. 3 1970 and Nov. 6 1971 Kerry was "Dishonorably dischared" ....Correct?
Just trying to get things lined up mentally. |
Sooo what had sKerry being doing in that time frame
he had been to Paris at least twice to meet with the enemy in May or June 1970 - and - either July or Aug 1971
his VVAW cohort Joe Urgo had been to Hanoi in August 1971... ? did he go alone
where there's smoke...
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| SBD wrote: | | Will someone please get her back on TV. |
maybe a case for Hannity....could try sending him send him some info SBD, and that video link...
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:54 am Post subject: |
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HE was a VERY busy man!
From John F. Kerry's Timeline at http://b66.info/JohnKerry/
| Quote: | 1970s ,
January 1, 1970 Kerry was promoted to (full) Lieutenant, USNR.
January 3, 1970 Kerry requested and was granted a release from Active Duty and transfered to inactive duty in the U.S. Naval Reserve, with records forwarded to Reserve Manpower Center, Naval Training Center, Bainbridge, Maryland.
(Note: Paragraph 6 in the Release from Active Duty form states: "You are advised that your release from active duty does not terminate your status as a memeber of the U.S. Naval Reserve. ... While on inactive duty you are subject to involuntary recall to active duty to the extent authorized by federal statute. ...")
February 13, 1970 Kerry told the Harvard Crimson,
“I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations . . . to almost eliminate CIA activity. The CIA is fighting its own war in Laos and nobody seems to care." He also favors a negative income tax and keeping unemployment at a very low level, "even if it means selective economic controls."
(The Harvard Crimson did a retrospective in its February 11, 2004 edition, Old Crimson Interview Reveals A More Radical John Kerry.)
February 1970 CCI co-sponsored its first “commissions of inquiry” in Toronto and Annapolis MD, and began providing accounts of war crimes to the press. During the next few months, the CCI held events in Springfield Massachusetts, Richmond, New York City, Buffalo, Boston, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and Portland Oregon.
March 1970 Kerry dropped out of the congressional race to make way for antiwar activist Father Robert F. Drinan, Dean of Boston College Law School, and later became chairman of Drinan's campaign. Drinan defeated pro-war incumbent Philip Philbin in the Democratic primary and won the general election.
May 4, 1970 The day after it was announced that the U.S. would send troops into Cambodia, anti-war protests began on campus at Kent State University and spilled into the city of Kent's downtown. 13 seconds of rifle fire by 28 Ohio National Guardsmen left four students dead, one permanently paralyzed, and eight others wounded. Not every student was a demonstrator, some were students just walking to class.
May 7, 1970 Kerry appeared on The Dick Cavett Show for the first time, speaking in opposition to U.S. involvement in Vietnam.
May 23, 1970 John Kerry married Philadelphia heiress Julia Stimson Thorne (born September 16, 1944, twin sister of John's friend, David Thorne). John and Julia later had two daughters, Alexandra, born on September 5, 1973, and Venessa, born on December 31, 1976.
May/June 1970 Kerry and Julia traveled to Paris, France and met with Madame Nguyen Thi Binh, the Foreign Minister of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Vietnam (PRG), the political wing of the Vietcong, and other Viet Cong and Communist Vietnamese representatives to the Paris peace talks, a trip he now calls a "fact-finding" mission.
(U.S. code 18 U.S.C. 953, declares it illegal for a U.S. citizen to go abroad and negotiate with a foreign power.)
June 1970 Kerry joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), a national veterans group that was part of the Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice. (The PCPJ was a broad coalition of local and national organizations, including the Communist Party, USA, “committed to conducting demonstrations aimed at ending the war in Indochina, and poverty, racism and injustice at home.” The VVAW, CCI and PCPJ all had headquarters at 156 Fifth Avenue in New York City. VVAW Executive Secretary Al Hubbard (a former Black Panther) was also on the coordinating committee of the PCPJ. Hubbard soon appointed Kerry to the VVAW’s Executive Committee, bypassing the normal election process.
August 1970 Al Hubbard asked Tod Ensign and Jeremy Rifkin of the CCI to join with the VVAW, the Reverend Dick Fernandez of Clergy and Laymen Concerned about Vietnam (CALCAV), Jane Fonda, Mark Lane and others to organize national hearings on war crimes. Lane suggested calling the hearings "Winter Soldier," a play on the opening lines of Thomas Paine's The American Crisis: "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink for the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." By the end of the month the Winter Soldier Investigation has been planned as a simultaneous event featuring "Vietnamese victims" in Windsor, Canada, and Vietnam veterans in Detroit, connected by closed-circuit
September 4, 1970 Some 75 VVAW members began a three-day hike to Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. Along the way they simulated war atrocities against civilians, and handed out flyers to the townspeople stating that they might have been raped, murdered or tortured by the U.S. Infantry had they been Vietnamese, and claiming that "American soldiers do these things every day." Called Operation RAW (Rapid American Withdrawal).
September 7, 1970 At the conclusion of Operation RAW, a rally is held in Valley Forge, featuring speeches by John Kerry, Jane Fonda, and Mark Lane. Fonda is quoted as saying that ". . . My Lai was not an isolated incident but rather a way of life for many of our military."
September 11, 1970 A VVAW Executive Committee meeting is attended by president Jan Crumb, executive secretary Al Hubbard, treasurer Jason Gettinger, Northeast representative John Kerry, and three others. The organization leadership decides to picket against the National Guard Association in New York, send Hubbard on a "speaking tour" with Jane Fonda, consider an "appropriate induction center action for purpose of making clear transition from citizen to war criminal," and "sponsor turn in of war crimes testimony to UN" after the Winter Soldier event.
September 17, 1970 The VVAW protests the National Guard's national convention.
October, 1970 Jane Fonda, Al Hubbard, and Jan Crumb raise money for the VVAW and create new chapters through a nationwide lecture tour covering more than 50 college campuses. Fonda and Mark Lane also plug the VVAW during appearances on the Dick Cavett Show.
November 22, 1970 During a fund-raising tour for GI deserters, Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the Black Panthers, Jane Fonda is quoted in the Detroit Free Press as telling a University of Michigan audience,
"I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would someday become communist,"
"The peace proposal of the Viet Cong is the only honorable, just, possible way to achieve peace in Vietnam."
1970 Kerry was one of the original organizers of the first Earth Day in Massachusetts, and would later chair the National Earth Day board in 1990. (1)
January 8-10, 1971 The People's Peace Treaty: Adopted by New University Conference and Chicago Movement Meeting:
"A Joint Treaty of Peace
BETWEEN THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, SOUTH VIETNAM & NORTH VIETNAM
Be it known that the American and Vietnamese people are not enemies. The war is carried out in the names of the people of the United States and South Vietnam but without our consent. It destroys the land and people of Vietnam. It drains America of its resources, its youth and its honor."
It is a nine-point agreement. Kerry is thought to have been one of the signers of the treaty.
January 31 - February 1, 1971 The VVAW met at a at a Howard Johnson’s in Detroit for the "Winter Soldier Investigation," a national conference intended to convince the public that American troops were routinely committing war crimes in Vietnam. "I was just going to show support for the guys who were already picked out to testify," said Steve Pitkin. "Fighting in the war was terrible enough -- I shot people -- but I never saw any atrocities against civilians. The Vietcong hung up tribal chiefs and disemboweled them in front of their own families -- they did that to their own people. I never saw Americans do anything like that.
Among those present were Scott Camil, John Kerry, Jane Fonda, Jan Crumb, Joe Bangert, and Steven J. Pitkim.
Steven J. Pitkin gave testimony (1 - 2). "Kerry and other leaders of the event instructed me to publicly state that I had witnessed incidents of rape, brutality, atrocities and racism, knowing that such statements would necessarily be untrue.
(Note: August 31, 2004, Steve Pitkin signed an Affadavit. Steve wants to apologize to Vietnam veterans for what he did and said at the Winter Soldier Investigation. "The VVAW found me during a difficult time in my life, and I let them use me to advance their political agenda. They pressured me to tell their lies, but that's no excuse for what I did. I just want people to know the truth and to make amends as best I can. I'd hate to see the troops serving today have to go through what Vietnam veterans did.")
February 19, 1971 VVAW leaders meet in New York to plan the organization's next action. John Kerry proposes to "march on Washington and take this whole thing to Congress." The protest is designated "Dewey Canyon III," after two military operations into Laos intended to interdict the Ho Chi Minh Trail. John
March 14 - 18, 1971 Jane Fonda, Mark Lane, and VVAW representative Michael Hunter fly to Europe for a five-day tour. In Paris, Fonda meets privately with Madame Binh of the PRG, then the three activists fly to London, where Fonda alleges American atrocities that include "applying electrodes to prisoners' genitals, mass rapes, slicing off of body parts, scalping, skinning alive, and leaving 'heat tablets' around which burned the insides of children who ate them.'"
March 16, 1971 The VVAW held a news conference on the third anniversary of the My Lai massacre to announce the forthcoming protest in Washington, DC. Retired Marine commandant General David Shoup and John Kerry demanded an immediate end to the war. Kerry, wearing his medals, described American soldiers as being "given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history."
April 18, 1971 John Kerry first appeared on NBC's Meet the Press with Al Hubbard and made the following statement.:
MR. KERRY (Vietnam Veterans Against the War): There are all kinds of atrocities and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free-fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search-and-destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare. All of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free-fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.
Kerry introduced Hubbard as a former Air Force captain who had spent two years in Vietnam and was wounded in action.
April 18 - 23, 1971 More than a thousand VVAW members stage an "invasion" of Washington D.C., for Operation Dewey Canyon III. They hold memorial ceremonies, meet with sympathetic members of Congress, camp on the Mall, perform "guerilla theater" -- re-enactments of atrocities against civilians, complete with fake blood -- on the Capitol steps and in front of the Justice Department, and hold a candlelight march around the White House carrying an upside-down American flag. At the end of the six-day event, a number of the veterans throw military medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the Capitol in a gesture of contempt. Many shout obscenities or threats against the government.
The protests receive enthusiastic coverage in the communist Daily World newspaper on April 20th (Part 1, Part 2), 21st (Part 1, Part 2), 23rd (Part 1, Part 2), and 24th (Part 1, Part 2).
April 22, 1971 John Kerry, director of the Vietnam Veterans against the War, testified before special session the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for two hours about alleging widespread atrocities by U.S. troops, and the official policies in Vietnam which were illegal, according to international law. He asks the Congressional panel "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"
"They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country." (1 - 2)
* * *
"I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned." (3)
* * *
Senator Stuart SYMINGTON (D- Mo.): Mr. Kerry, from your experience in Vietnam do you think it is possible for the President or Congress to get accurate and undistorted information through official military channels."
KERRY: I had direct experience with that. Senator, I had direct experience with that and I can recall often sending in the spot reports which we made after each mission; and including the GDA, gunfire damage assessments, in which we would say, maybe 15 sampans sunk or whatever it was. And I often read about my own missions in the Stars and Stripes and the very mission we had been on had been doubled in figures and tripled in figures. . . . I also think men in the military, sir, as do men in many other things, have a tendency to report what they want to report and see what they want to see. (4)
A large group of veterans march to the steps of the Supreme Court to ask the Court why it has not ruled on the constitutionality of the war. They sing God Bless America. One hundred and ten are arrested for disturbing the peace and are led off the steps with their hands clasped behind their heads. Lobbying on Capitol Hill continues all day. A District Court judge angrily dissolves his injunction order, rebuking Justice Department lawyers for requesting the court order and then not enforcing it.
Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General and lawyer for the vets, spoke on the Supreme Court's ban against the veteran's campsite at the foot of Capitol Hill. John Kerry can be seen pictured on the podium.
Veterans stage a candlelight march around the White House. A huge American flag is carried upside down as a signal of distress. The march ends back at the camp when the flag carriers mount the stage.
April 23, 1971 Veterans threw their medals and ribbons over a makeshift fence on the steps of the Capitol. Kerry claimed to throw his ribbons over the fense, then claimed they were someone else's ribbons or medals.
Congressman Jonathan Bingham held hearings with former intelligence and public information officers over distortion of news and information concerning the war. Senators George McGovern and Philip Hart held hearings on atrocities committed by U.S. soldiers in Vietnam.
The NBC Nightly News reveals that Al Hubbard had not been an Air Force Captain, as he claimed, but a staff sergeant E-5. A later investigation of Hubbard's military records shows that he was never assigned to Vietnam.
Kerry is interviewed in a New York Times article titled “An Angry War Veteran,” in which he admits to the reporter that he enlisted in the Swift Boats to avoid the war in Vietnam, since the boats were only used for patrol duty:
“That first trip to Vietnam piqued his curiosity, 'I wanted to go back and see for myself what was going on, but I didn’t really want to get involved in the war.' So late in 1968 he volunteered for an assignment on "swift boats" - the short, fast aluminum craft that were then used for patrol duty off the coast of Vietnam.
"Two weeks before he arrived in Vietnam as a swift boat commander, he said, 'they changed the policy on the use of the boats - decided to send them up the river to prove to the Vietcong that they didn’t own the waters.'
The river missions involved shooting at sampans and at huts along the banks and suddenly, Mr. Kerry recalls, we said, ‘hey, wait a minute - we don’t know who these people are.’ So we started to beach our boats to go to ashore and find out what we had been shooting at.”
May 25, 1971 Kerry appears on 60 Minutes with Morley Safer. Asked whether he wants to be President of the United States, Kerry replies in the negative, and calls it a "crazy question."
May 30 - 31, 1971 Several hundred VVAW members marched from Concord to Boston, reversing the path of Paul Revere's 1775 midnight ride.
After defying a ban on overnight use of Battle Green in Lexington, site of the first battle of the American Revolution, 458 people are arrested and held overnight, including John Kerry. The following day the group marches from Bunker Hill to Boston Common.
June 1971 According to an FBI report, Kerry praised Vietnam’s communist dictator Ho Chi Minh, comparing him to George Washington. At the time, Kerry was serving as the point man for VVAW. The president of the organization, Al Hubbard, claimed to be an Air Force captain who was severely injured during his service in Vietnam, but it was discovered that Hubbard was a sergeant who never served in Vietnam. Hubbard did serve the communist cause, making propaganda trips to Hanoi paid for by the Communist Party USA.
Summer 1971 According to the FBI files, Kerry met with representatives from the North Vietnamese government in Paris in 1971 in an effort to secure the release of captured American prisoners of war. Gerald Nicosia, a Kerry supporter and the author of Home to War: A History of the Vietnam Veterans' Movement, noted that this meeting is documented in redacted FBI files.
June 13, 1971 Kerry spoke at the Register for Peace Rally at Mineola, New York.
(Despite a doctored photograph surfacing, Jane Fonda was not present at the event.)
June 30, 1971 John Kerry debated John O'Neill on The Dick Cavett Show. After his antiwar testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations committee, Kerry became a much sought-after guest on late night talk shows.
July 24, 1971 John Kerry spoke in support of the Vietnam Provisional Revolutionary Government's Seven Point Plan.
October 1971 John Kerry and the VVAW published The New Soldier (Collier-Macmillan, 1971), a book of essays and photographs documenting Operation Dewey Canyon III, held April 18-23, 1971. It was edited by David Thorne and George Butler. Kerry later bought up all available copies of the book when he ran for political office, later in 1972. The book can be downloaded in three parts: Part I, Part II, Part III.
"We will not quickly join those who march on Veterans' Day waving small flags, calling to memory those thousands who died for the 'greater glory of the United States.' We will not accept the rhetoric. We will not readily join the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars-in fact, we will find it hard to join anything at all and when we do, we will demand relevancy such as other organizations have recently been unable to provide. We will not take solace from the creation of monuments or the naming of parks after a select few of the thousands of dead Americans and Vietnamese. We will not uphold traditions which decorously memorialize that which was base and grim."
November 12 - 15, 1971 Declassified FBI documents identified John Kerry as having attended a VVAW meeting in Kansas City, Missouri in the house of one of the members. Scot Camil , VVAW Regional Coordinator from Florida was running the meeting. Camil proposed the establishment of "readiness groups" of the "Phoenix type."
VVAW secretly voted on a proposal to kill six pro-war senators, including Republican Strom Thurmond of South Carolina and Democrat John Stennis of Mississippi.
Gerald Nicosia, the historian, told the New York Sun that “Camil was deadly serious, brilliant and highly logical.” In his book he reports that “what Camil sketched was so explosive that the coordinators feared lest government agents even hear of it,” so they moved their meeting to a Mennonite hall.
There, according to six eyewitnesses interviewed by the Sun, the plan was discussed and voted down, with Mr. Kerry speaking out against it, although there is disagreement about how narrow the margin of defeat was. On the third day of the meeting, Mr. Kerry and three others resigned from their posts as national coordinators of VVAW. Historian Douglas Brinkley says Mr. Kerry told him he quit because of “personality conflicts and differences in political philosophy.” Mr. Kerry also told Mr. Brinkley that he was a “no show” in Kansas City.
Kerry later told two historians, Gerald Nicosia and Douglas Brinkley, that he was not there and that he had resigned from the organization before the meeting was held. In March 2004, reliable witnesses came forward and placed John Kerry at the meeting. In 2004, FBI files emerged establishing Kerry’s presence in Kansas City. His campaign conceded that Kerry somehow must have forgotten his involvement in the plot to assassinate U.S. senators while still on the executive committee of the VVAW.
November 15, 1971 John Kerry resigns from the Executive Committee of the VVAW stating personal reasons, after trying unsuccessfully to have Al Hubbard removed from the group’s leadership. (Kerry continued to represent the organization in interviews and public appearances for several months.)
December 26, 1971 VVAW protesters take over the Statue of Liberty for about 40 hours and draped an upside-down American flag across the statue’s face. According to the New York Post, the VVAW later receives a “congratulatory message” from Vietcong negotiator Le Mai in Paris.
December 27, 1971 Twenty-five VVAW protesters took over the Betsy Ross House in Philadelphia.
December 28, 1971 VVAW protesters splash bags of blood in front of the White House, then take over the Lincoln Memorial. 87 are arrested. John Kerry tells the New York Times that he is helping raise bail money for some of the demonstrators.
January 11, 1972 John Kerry represented the VVAW at Dartmouth College.
February 12, 1972 Kerry spoke at the Rhode Island Young Democrats' convention in Providence, Rhode Island, urging youth voter registration.
January 25, 1972 Kerry attended a Washington protest meeting where the New York Times described him as "a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War."
February 1972 A VVAW delegation attended a World Assembly for Peace and Independence of the People of Indochina in Versailles, France.
April 3, 1972 John Kerry announced his candidacy for the Massachusetts 5th Congressional District seat vacated by Rep. F. Bradford Morse.
April 22, 1972 John Kerry represented the VVAW at the "Emergency March for Peace" in Bryant Park in New York City.
May 30, 1972 As a candidate for the US House of Representatives in the 5th Congressional District, John Kerry addressed the Democratic National Platform Committee at Faneuil Hall.
July 1, 1972 Lieutenant Kerry is transferred to Standby Reserves, Inactive.
July 8 - 22, 1972 Jane Fonda made her infamous visit to Hanoi, where she made numerous radio broadcasts to American and South Vietnamese military personnel encouraging mutiny and desertion, while repeatedly claiming that the United States is committing war crimes in Vietnam. Fonda also visited American prisoners, reporting on the air that they are being “well cared for” and that they wished to convey their “sense of disgust of the war and their shame for what they have been asked to do.” Upon leaving North Vietnam, Fonda accepted from her hosts a ring made from the wreckage of a downed American plane.
July 29 - August 12, 1972 Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark travels to Hanoi on behalf of the Communist Stockholm International Commission for Inquiry. Clark denounces the U.S. bombing of North Vietnam and visited American POWs, reporting that they are in good health and their conditions "could not be better."
September 1972 On the eve of the primary, Cameron Kerry, John's brother, and campaign field director Thomas J. Vallely, were arrested in the basement of a Lowell building that housed the headquarters of Kerry and another Democratic contender, state Representative Anthony R. DiFruscia of Lawrence. (Thomas Vallely will later become director of the Vietnam Program at the John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University.)
September 19, 1972 Kerry won the Democratic primary for his Congressional bid.
November 1972 Kerry lost his bid for Congress in the general election to Republican Paul Cronin.
Late 1972 The U.S Congress voted to eliminate funding for military operations in Indochina.
January 24, 1973 President Richard Nixon announced the cease-fire in Vietnam.
March 4, 1973 Maj. Kenneth Cordier, is Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody for 2,284 days. He said his captors "repeated incessantly" John Kerry's one-liner about being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released March 4, 1973. He is among many with similar stories. (1 - 2)
“This man committed an act of treason. He lied, he besmirched our name and he did it for self-interest. And now he wants us to forget.”
(Excerpt from “Stolen Honor”) -- George (Bud) Day,Former Vietnam POW
April 1973 Jane Fonda calls the freed American prisoners “hypocrites and pawns,” insisting that, "Tortured men do not march smartly off planes, salute the flag, and kiss their wives. They are liars. I also want to say that these men are not heroes."
1973 - 1976 Kerry enrolled in September of 1973 at Boston College Law School, Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts.
1974 North Vietnam initiates minor probing attacks into South Vietnam--in violation of the Paris treaty...... con'td |
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“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776)
Last edited by shawa on Tue May 24, 2005 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 5:14 am Post subject: Re: just thinking out loud |
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geeeeeeeeez  he only broke the UCMJ eleventy-hundred times....what a jerk 
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Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Senator Stuart SYMINGTON (D- Mo.): Mr. Kerry, from your experience in Vietnam do you think it is possible for the President or Congress to get accurate and undistorted information through official military channels."
KERRY: I had direct experience with that. Senator, I had direct experience with that and I can recall often sending in the spot reports which we made after each mission; and including the GDA, gunfire damage assessments, in which we would say, maybe 15 sampans sunk or whatever it was. And I often read about my own missions in the Stars and Stripes and the very mission we had been on had been doubled in figures and tripled in figures. . . . I also think men in the military, sir, as do men in many other things, have a tendency to report what they want to report and see what they want to see. |
Probably the only statement he made that day that was close to the truth. So Mr. Flip Flop said in 1971 that his Spot Reports were embelished but in 2004, they were the God's honest truth. 
This guy is such a piece of $#!^.
SBD
SBD |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | have a tendency to report what they want to report and see what they want to see. |
That quote may end up being worth a million. I believe it's also available on video, isn't it? Make a nice piece for a future Swiftboat ad (it would have actually been good in the mine incident). Thanks, Senator, I couldn't have said it better myself!  |
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Chief RZ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 12
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: virus alert ? |
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Careful,
When I tried to read John Kerry's version, my computer went crazy. It has taken an hour to re-boot it. He may have put some malicious logic on his 180 in addition to malicious logic !!! |
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Navy wife
Research Director
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Arlington, VA & Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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SBD, Kate, and all the rest of you who are such wonderful Internet researchers--------a project for you!!!
Are the early issues of Stars and Stripes available? If so, let's get them and compare them to the spot reports we have!!! Wouldn't it be interesting to compare them to his testimony
| Quote: | | And I often read about my own missions in the Stars and Stripes and the very mission we had been on had been doubled in figures and tripled in figures |
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How I'd love to prove him wrong 
Navy Wife |
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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From Michelle Malkin :
http://www.michellemalkin.com/
CQ | Quote: | All kidding aside, Kerry only agreed to sign off on the SF-180. He didn't agree to release every document that results from that request. The SF-180 will only release the information to Kerry, who can then cull the material for anything embarrassing before making it public.
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This contradicts what John O'Neill said last summer. As I noted above, O'Neill said that once the SF-180 is signed and executed, anyone can obtain all of Kerry's records directly from DoD. Either O'Neill was right or Morrissey is right, but not both. I'm sure the blogosphere will quickly figure it out.
I hope John O'Neill is right 
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| manelly wrote: | From Michelle Malkin :
http://www.michellemalkin.com/
CQ | Quote: | All kidding aside, Kerry only agreed to sign off on the SF-180. He didn't agree to release every document that results from that request. The SF-180 will only release the information to Kerry, who can then cull the material for anything embarrassing before making it public.
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This contradicts what John O'Neill said last summer. As I noted above, O'Neill said that once the SF-180 is signed and executed, anyone can obtain all of Kerry's records directly from DoD. Either O'Neill was right or Morrissey is right, but not both. I'm sure the blogosphere will quickly figure it out.
I hope John O'Neill is right |
John O'Neill's obvious intent (although, perhaps, it SHOULD have been specifically delineated) was that Kerry authorize full PUBLIC access to his military records. Now, you are correct, I think, that merely asking for a signed 180 gives Kerry a loophole wide enough to drive a Mack truck through. We'll see whether the MSM is prepared or not to hold Kerry's feet to the fire on this one. My bet is (given today's Globe story) there's a growing sentiment to do just that.
Also consider that Russert raised that very question when he noted that John Kerry should not be the "filter" through whom these records are passed. Russert understands the potential dodge...we need to make sure he's reminded of it. |
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