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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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 Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm, strange thing!!
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19451&start=15&sid=cd52cc7e0300c61e17677438d6c82a94
I went back to link to a Kerry timeline that I had posted on SBD's thread to see what date Kerry "left" the Navy, and click the link to
Combat vets against Kerry, and it's GONE!!
Just like the Harvard Crimson article link I posted. When I went back to that one it was GONE too!!
Kerry sure is CLEANSING THE NET!!!!
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the Harvard Crimson article that was removed from the website.
I had copied it to keep for myself.
The only thing I see that's reallyharmful to him is that he must have claimed that he was HONORABLY DISCHARGED in January, 1970 and that he didn't tell the Navy about what he was doing in October, 1969 (moratorium).
| Quote: | Originally published on Wednesday, February 18, 1970 in the News section of The Harvard Crimson.
John Kerry: A Navy Dove Runs for Congress
By SAMUEL Z. GOLDHABER
SAMUEL Z. GOLDHABER
Citizens'Caucus To Meet Saturday
Hundreds of opponents to the Vietnam War will meet this coming Saturday in a Third District Citizens Caucus to choose a Democrat strong enough in the September primary to oust Philip J. Philbin (D-Mass.) from the Congressional seat he has held for 26 years. Philbin, whose District stretches from Fitchburg to Newton, is the second-ranking member on the House Armed Services Committee and many people consider the 71-year-old Congressman a hawk on Vietnam and an all-around conservative. Any resident of the Third District, including college students under 21, will be eligible to vote at the open caucus, which will be held at Concord Carlisle Regional High School.
The caucus will assign electoral votes to each city and town in the Third
District, based on the latest population figures. Residents from each locality will meet in Concord and the candidate who gets the majority of each locality's votes will take all the city's or town's electoral votes. For example, I come from Waban, a village of Newton, which happens to be the most populous city in the District. If I'm the only delegate who shows up from Newton, all of Newton's electoral votes will go to the candidate of my choice.
The leading contenders for the caucus's nomination are Father Robert F.
Drinan, dean of the Boston College Law School; Harrison Chandler Stevens, who ran as an Independent against Philbin in 1968 and enjoyed the support of many college volunteers; and John F. Kerry, who favors immediate withdrawal, and was the first Vietnam veteran to run for Congress with a dovish platform on the War.
Drinan, for the moment, is considered the favorite. He is well known in
academic circles and at the age of 49 has mustered an impressive list of
credentials. He is distinguished especially as the first priest to run for Congress since 1822.
Stevens, who would have to change his registration from Independent to
Democrat in order to oppose Philbin in the September primary, is shied away from not only because he is not a Democrat, but also because he refused to endorse any Presidential candidate when he ran in 1968. Although Stevens had built up an impressive political machine, he has been assistant to the governor of Puerto Rico for the past year and returned to the District only two weeks ago.
Kerry has the most explicit stand against the Vietnam War and although his youth is a plus, the fact that he is a political unknown does not help him. Now 26, he was honorably discharged from the Navy last month but has been laying the groundwork for the race ever since November. Occasionally, Kerry makes obvious his recent return to civilian life and the Third Congressional District.
When he came into the CRIMSON building last Friday, I introduced myself, saying I was from Waban.
"Waban, where's that?" he asked.
"It's in the District."
"W-O-B-O-N? Wobon? That's not in my District," he said.
"There's no such thing as Wobon. You must be thinking of Woburn. Anyway, I'm in Waban, a village of Newton, and certainly you've heard of Newton, haven't you?"
"So Waban's in Newton? Well, you learn something new every day," he said.
At Yale, Kerry was chairman of the Political Union and later, as Commencement speaker, urged the United States to withdraw from Vietnam and to scale down foreign military operations. And this was way back in 1966.
When he approached his draft board for permission to study for a year in
Paris, the draft board refused and Kerry decided to enlist in the Navy. The Navy assigned him to the USS Gridley which between December 1966 and July 1968 saw four months of action off the Vietnam coast. In August through November, 1968, Kerry was trained to be the skipper of a patrol boat for Vietnamese rivers.
For the next five months, until April of 1969, Kerry was the commanding
Lieutenant of a patrol boat in the Mekong Delta. He was wounded slightly on three different occasions and received a Silver Star for bravery. His patrol boat took part in Operation Sealords, mostly scouting out Viet Cong villages and transporting South Vietnamese marines to various destinations up and down narrow rivers covered with heavy foliage on either side. One time Kerry was ordered to destroy a Viet Cong village but disobeyed orders and suggested that the Navy Command simply send in a Psychological Warfare team to be friend the villagers with food, hospital supplies, and better educational facilities.
Pulling Out
Immediate withdrawal from Vietnam, Kerry said, would take about seven months due to complex logistics problems. During that interval he would allow only "self-defense return of fire." "Logistic suport is now what Nixon is talking about leaving there and I don't want to see that. I don't think we should leave support troops there and I don't think we should give Vietnam any more than the foreign aid given any other one country." He does not feel there would be a massive slaughter of American, sympathizers once the United States pulled out.
In America, "everybody who's against the war is suddenly considered
anti-American," Kerry said. "But I don't think they can turn to me and say I don't know what's going on or I'm a draft dodger." Referring to the House Armed Services Committee, chaired by L. Mendel Rivers (D-S.C.), Kerry said, "I want to go down to Washington and confront Medel Rivers, who never fought in a war.
"I as effectively as anyone else in the country, can address myself to the
issue of Vietnam," Kerry said. "I'm very realistic, though. I'm just going to be one man adding to the work of men like Lowenstein."
Kerry is a pilot, and on October 14 and 15 he flew Ted Kennedy's advisor Adam Walinsky by private plane throughout the State of New York so that Walinsky could give speeches against the Vietnam War. But Kerry was smart enough not to put down "Moratorium" on the Navy signout sheet for that Tuesday and Wednesday. The following month, Kerry was sick and did not engage in the November moratorium activities.
He supports a volunteer Army, "if and only if we can create the controls for it. You're going to have to prepare for the possibility of a national
emergency, however." Kerry said that the United Nations should have control over most of our foreign military operations. "I'm ainternationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations."
On other issues, Kerry wants "to almost eliminate CIA activity. The CIA is
fighting its own war in Laos and nobody seems to care." He also favors a
negative income tax and keeping unemployment at a very low level, "even if it means selective economic controls."
Kerry's Background
"I have a somewhat Establishment background," Kerry admitted modestly. Kerry, whose family comes from Groton, attended Fessenden, a prestigious private school in West Newton, until he was old enough to go to St. Paul's. From there he went on to Yale where he majored in political science.
Kerry's interest in politics began in 1960, when John Kennedy was running for President. Kerry gave his first political speeches for JFK and at St. Paul's founded a political group, the John Winant Society. In the summer of 1962, Kerry worked for Ted Kennedy, who was then making his first Senate bid. "I wanted to see how the political machine works."
At Yale, Kerry was instrumental in organizing the demonstrations for giving tenure to philosophy professor Dick Bernstein, even though Bernstein had not done very much publishing. As President of the Political Union, Kerry met an impressive array of political figures and spent much of his time fighting for a new YPU building, which Yale eventually built.
Kerry's style can turn people off at first because he gives the initial
impression of being too good to be true, of being just a little bit insincere.
His preppiness might make you think he's a blueblood WASP, but Kerry is really a Roman Catholic. However, an afternoon on the campaign trail with Kerry leaves you with quite a different impression.
Out in Bolton, a town smaller than Waban, he went to a genuine Yankee house, built in 1740, I watched Kerry as he tried to convince four ladies to go to Saturday's caucus in Concord. While the ladies drank tea. Kerry stuck to his guns and told the women that most welfare recipients did deserve to be on the lists. He said Spiro Agnew was one of the poorer vice-presidents, not one of our great statesmen.
Because of Kerry's background, and his style which the ladies adored, he may have succeeded in charming them into driving out to Concord on Saturday. And four Kerry votes from Bolton would probably mean all of Bolton's electoral votes for Kerry.
What if Kerry loses at the caucus? "If it's a representative group," he said,
"I'll support the candidate that comes out." He said he might campaign for
Stevens, if Stevens wins the caucus's approval. Another idea of his is creating a national citizen's lobby which would be primarily educational and which "would be a new kind of interest group that will demand attention from the men who are legislating."
In the last month, Kerry has driven 4000 miles back and forth across the
District. "I should be at law school," he said, "but the problems are too great to sit back and watch them go by." |
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776)
Last edited by shawa on Sun May 29, 2005 2:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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IMO,
SAMUEL Z. GOLDHABER or KERRY(during the interview) spun his discharge from "Active Duty" to an honorable discharge from the Navy.  GOlDHABER refers to" last month" he's referring to Jan 3 discharge from active duty.
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Harvuskong wrote: |
Is it possibe that the discharge could be a standard pre-printed form with the logo and a standard text body with blank spaces left for a clerk using a typewriter or a system with a daisy wheel printer to fill in the blank lines?? |
that would explain, what had seemed to my eyes, to be 2 different fonts within the original document itself...especially the numerals. The numerals used for the paragraphs, look different from numerals used elsewhere in the original, ie. the numeral one for the first paragraph... seems most different
re the blanked out strip: social security numbers would be redacted, but, don't know if that would be the spot where a SS# would be placed?
edit to add: SS# would be redacted on documents released publicly
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one of..... We The People
Last edited by kate on Sun May 29, 2005 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | social security numbers would be redacted, but, don't know if that would be the spot where a SS# would be placed? |
When I was on active duty (72-76), your Social Security number was used as your military ID number. I was in the Air Force, but I would imagine it was the same in the Navy. That makes it pretty difficult to keep your SSAN "secret", since it's printed all over most vet's records in multiple places.
If they were suing a pre-printed form and filling in blanks with a typewriter, it should be easy to spot. Not only will the font be (possibly) different, there will be mis-alignment of the inserted text with the rest of the document, and there would have to have been enough space left blank to accept the longest text string that could be encountered. It should be obvious if this was done. |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Reading throught his thread, I had a thought. Kerry has a private pilot's license dating from his Navy days, correct? I wonder just how much info might be in the FAA records relating to that? Do they ask about military service, dates of rank, discharge status, etc? Not being a pilot, I don't know. I would imagine they want a pretty detailed history, though. Just a thought, but are any of those records available?  |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I've been googling for FAA pilot records and found this reference to Kerry at:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=6&q=http://www.avweb.com/news/avmail/187663-1.html&e=9707
He states he didn't find any other references to Kerry.
| Quote: | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The First Active GA Presidential Candidate And Nobody Cares?
I found this listing in the current FAA airman medical certificate records:
Name: KERRY, JOHN FORBES
Airman's Address: 19 LOUISBURG SQ
BOSTON, MA, 02108-1202
Date of Medical: Dec, 2003
Class of Medical: 2
Expiration : Dec, 2004
Airman Certificates: Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land
Airplane Single Engine Sea
Airplane Multiengine Land
Instrument Airplane
Glider Aero Tow (Private Pilot)
Yet, for some reason (probably because of its historical pro-Republican bias), the general aviation press has not seen fit to mention the key fact that we have the chance to elect the first active GA pilot to the White House. (I searched AVweb, AOPA, EAA, general aviation news, and other Web sites for "Kerry" and could find no references other than to his being a senator who has been active in promoting relief from the effects of 9/11.)
I'm a lifelong Republican myself, but the fact that I could have a fellow GA pilot in the White House, who would most likely protect the interests of pilots (and certainly couldn't do any worse for GA than the current administration has), makes me want to vote Democratic this time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Kerry has had his license since his days at Yale ( '62- '66)
BostonGlode
| Quote: | | But Thorne and other members of the university's elite Skull and Bones society knew another side of Kerry: He was a young man drawn to danger. During his senior year he "majored in flying," as Kerry put it, learning aerobatics and performing loop-de-loops instead of focusing on his studies |
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Essayons
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 81
Location: Philadelphia area
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of good questions and input so let me add some of my own. Check out the two documents posted by rbshirley on May 20th.
http://pcf45.com/discharge.jpg Kerry’s discharge dated FEB 16 1976
http://pcf45.com/other_discharge.jpg Another officer’s discharge dated MAR 12 1974
These two postings started me looking more closely at the Kerry document and not due solely to the full justification of the Kerry document text.
Notice that the 1974 document has a signature (John W. Warner) and Kerry’s does not. The signature block text is mostly illegible but the name appears to be Caytor or Clayton, Jr. who was? the Secretary of the Navy at that time.
Notice that the 1974 document has the name of the officer along with his address redacted in black. The Kerry address is just gone. Not redacted, not “whited-out” – just GONE.
Notice that Kerry’s name is missing the upper part of the letters and the same happens in the Via: line and the signature block.
The above three pseudo “redactions” can be accomplished in Photoshop using the “Cloning” tool and since the only good .jpg copy of the document that I have is 200dpi I could not see any artifacts of the cloning operation.
Notice that the Encl: line on the Kerry document reads “(1) Honorable Discharge Certificate.” I never came across a posting of this document – maybe someone has a copy. Kerry did post a copy of his enlisted Honorable Discharge (Certificate) on his web site.
The one item that is redacted in the Kerry document possibly might have been something like “para - - XXXX.” I have no idea what XXXX is.
The bulk of the Kerry document is boiler plate. The date, To:, Via: and signature block information were typed into the document.
Shawa raises an interesting question as to why Kerry posted the document if it was a forgery. My question would be why did he post it, forgery or not, when he should have posted only the “Honorable Discharge Certificate?” Much less chance of a possible controversy.
Regards,
Dick
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Essayons said
| Quote: | | when he should have posted only the “Honorable Discharge Certificate?” |
That is exactly my point. He didn't have ANY OTHER Discharge Certificate.
Either the 'Dishonorable' one was EXPUNGED (totally gone from his record) as the the Carter Executive Order apparently directed the Navy to do, OR he NEVER received ANY Discharge!
Read this Captains Quarters Blog from 11/01/04. Mr Sullivan, a former Jag Officer said it was possible, at that time, that he received no discharge at all. My point being that the 1978 'Carter' discharge is the ONLY one Kerry has.
| Quote: | November 01, 2004
Kerry Discharge "Other Than Honorable": NY Sun
Our friend Thomas Lipscomb writes today at the New York Sun that based on records produced at the John Kerry campaign website and military regulations and practice at the time of Kerry's Navy career, John Kerry received a less-than-honorable discharge for his service. Because of Kerry's refusal to make all of his records public and the Privacy Act of 1974, Lipscomb's sources would not go on the record. However, a reserve JAG and a former Navy officer from the Bureau of Personnel have helped Lipscomb build a strong circumstantial case for the negative separation:
The "honorable discharge" on the Kerry Web site appears to be a Carter administration substitute for an original action expunged from Mr. Kerry's record, according to Mark Sullivan, who retired as a captain in the Navy's Judge Advocate General Corps Reserve in 2003 after 33 years of service as a judge advocate. Mr. Sullivan served in the office of the Secretary of the Navy between 1975 and 1977.
On behalf of the Kerry campaign, Michael Meehan and others have repeatedly insisted that all of Mr. Kerry's military records are on his Web site atjohnkerry.com, except for his medical records.
"If that is the case," Mr. Sullivan said, "the true story isn't what was on the Web site. It's what's missing. There should have been an honorable discharge certificate issued to Kerry in 1975,if not earlier, three years after his transfer to the Standby Reserve-Inactive."
Another retired Navy Reserve officer, who served three tours in the Navy's Bureau of Personnel, points out that there should also have been a certified letter giving Mr. Kerry a choice of a reserve reaffiliation or separation and discharge. If Mr. Meehan is correct and all the documents are indeed on the Web site, the absence of any documents from 1972 to 1978 in the posted Kerry files is a glaring hole in the record.
Sullivan notes the possibility that Kerry received no discharge at all when he separated from the service between 1972 and 1975. Commonly at that time, eligible officers were only issued discharges when being involuntarily separated from the service if their service was deemed honorable; the lack of any discharge was considered a stigma and a highly negative comment on an officer's record.
Lipscomb also has more circumstantial evidence of the aftermath of Kerry's discharge which indicates it was either dishonorable or "undesirable". After Kerry left the Navy, he intended on entering law school, but had trouble getting accepted. The official Kerry explanation is that his applications were too late for most schools to consider for the term Kerry wanted to start, but that's not how Lipscomb's source at Harvard remembers it:
Certainly something was wrong as early as 1973 when Mr. Kerry was applying to law school.
Mr. Kerry has said, "I applied to Harvard, Boston University, and Boston College. I was extremely late. Only BC would entertain a late application."
It is hard to see why Mr. Kerry had to file an "extremely late" application since he lost the congressional race in Lowell, Mass., the first week of November 1972 and was basically doing nothing until he entered law school the following September of 1973.A member of the Harvard Law School admissions committee recalled that the real reason Mr. Kerry was not admitted was because the committee was concerned that because Mr. Kerry had received a less than honorable discharge they were not sure he could be admitted to any state bar.
The fact that Mr. Kerry had cancelled his candidacy for a Congressional seat in 1970 in favor of Father Robert Drinan cannot have hurt Mr. Kerry's admission to Boston College. The Reverend Robert Drinan's previous position was dean of the Boston College Law School.
Read all of Lipscomb's article. With a day to go before the election, Kerry managed to skate by without releasing his complete service records, even admitting it on NBC before NBC decided to "sanitize" the records and remove the admission from its interview with Kerry. It follows a pattern of complicity in the mainstream media to cover up John Kerry's even while hypocritically demanding transparency on George Bush's honorable discharge, received normally and on time for his service.
Posted by Captain Ed at November 1, 2004 04:45 AM
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_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Secretaries of the Navy, covering Kerry service & document time periods. My my, how many of these names have
turned up on documents, or news articles (ie Middendorf) related to kerry
John H. Chafee..................31 Jan 1969 - 4 May 1972
John W. Warner.................4 May 1972 - 8 Apr 1974
J. William Middendorf...........8 Apr 1974 - 20 Jan 1977
W. Graham Claytor, Jr.........14 Feb 1977 - 24 Aug 1979
Edward Hidalgo..................24 Oct 1979 - 20 Jan 1981
John Lehman.....................5 Feb 1981 - 10 Apr 1987
more questions
>>the Kerry document states
Encl: (1) Honorable Discharge Certificate
so where is it??
>> the sample document from rbshirley, see previous posts has
Via: CO, NAVAL RESERVE MANPOWER CENTER, BAINBRIDGE,MD.
while Kerry's document has
Via: CO, NAVAL RESERVE PERSONNEL _ _ , NEW ORLEANS, LA.
found this tidbit re New Orleans, no idea if it means a thing
web cache of defense link NO1080-3
| Quote: | Retention and disposal:
Automated recruiting files are retained as long as the individual is a recruit for the Naval Reserve Force. Upon enlistment into the Naval Reserve, files are transferred to the appropriate component and retained as long as the individual is a drilling reservist in the Naval Reserve. Upon retirement or separation from the Naval Reserve, the member's files are transferred to the Naval Reserve Personnel Center, New Orleans, where records are retained in accordance with MAPMIS Manual
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sooo does that support that Kerry was already separated and this was then an upgrade?
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Essayons
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 81
Location: Philadelphia area
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Shawa,
Kerry’s Navy records would not contain his Honorable Discharge Certificate. The Navy is not required to put that document in his “jacket.” He posted his enlisted Honorable Discharge (Certificate) from his personal files.
So I guess the question to Kerry is “where is your officer Honorable Discharge” re: the 1978 board of review enclosure reference. And Kerry’s response will probably be “I guess I lost it.”
If he cannot provide his Honorable Discharge Certificate then there is the possibility that the 1978 document he posted is a forgery.
To All,
Kerry has supposedly signed a SF180 and forwarded it to the Navy. What he requested to be released is unknown since there is no posting of his SF 180 on the Internet.
I will stand down until he posts his new documents – whenever that happens. My SF 180 request took over six months to process. I have a few additional “possible proofs’ of forgery but I will hold them to myself until Kerry’s “new” military documents are posted on his web site.
Should the 1978 board of officers document reappear then I will release my additional findings. (hint to lurking Kerryites – make sure he does not repost the 1978 board of officers honorable discharge document – but, if he does not repost it…? - hey, have him post his officer Honorable Discharge Certificate…).
(To any lurking Kerryites – Flipper is toast and if I do not get him the Hildabeast will)
Kerry has spent the last 35 years saying what he wants to say, unchallenged, to bolster his political career. The Swift Vets and POWs sank his “dingy” last year but the MSM ignored the facts.
It is “seared” into my memory that Kerry called us VN vets, among other things, baby killers and more. What a contrived (Winter Soldier) crock of sheet!
I am signing off this thread. Once Kerry posts his “new” military documents I will rejoin the subject on a different thread.
Tomorrow is Memorial Day. It is a day I reserve to myself to reflect privately on those who gave their lives to give me the freedom I enjoy everyday of my life. God bless them all.
Veterans Day is my time to celebrate with fellow vets every few years. I do not go to parades. Every few years I go to visit the Wall in DC and meet with fellow 9th ID vets to place wreaths at the Wall from both the 9th ID and the Mobile Riverine Force (joint Navy and 9th ID operations in the Mekong Delta).
Regards,
Dick
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Essayons
Please forgive me if you took offense at what I was trying to say.
In no way did I mean to denigrate your hard work. To the contrary, I am fascinated by it. As I stated earlier, I am a total novice when it comes to the technology involved.
My only point was that Kerry obviously doesn't appear to have another discharge to offer. He couldn't put up a Dishonorable Discharge and he may not have even got ANY discharge. He HAD to put up the 1978 board of review discharge and as you suspect, he may well have had someone forge it because he never actually requested it when Carter gave the amnesty order. Who knows??
Dick, you rightly pointed out various discrepancies which really make me wonder, especially the fact that there is no signature!! If it is a phony document, the person who did it didn't have the chutzpah to put the Sec/Nav signature on it.
If, as Mr Sullivan stated in the article, Kerry didn't get ANY discharge, he sure had to come up with something.
I certainly hope you all continue to pursue this re-creation, because it is a viable possibility!
And I certainly want to see Kerry disgraced and kicked out of his lofty Senate seat. HE IS A DESPICABLE TRAITOR!
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If, as Mr Sullivan stated in the article, Kerry didn't get ANY discharge, |
seems possible shawa....
| Quote: | forum discussion here
Unlike enlisted members, officers do not receive "other than honorable" or "dishonorable" certificates of discharge. To the contrary, the rule is that no certificate will be awarded to an officer separated wherever the circumstances prompting separation "are not deemed consonant with traditional naval concepts of 'honor'." |
can't post one, if'n you don't have one
maybe Nixon did kick his butt out
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Harvuskong
Seaman
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| kate wrote: |
maybe Nixon did kick his butt out |
Speaking of Nixon:
http://nixon.archives.gov/find/textual/presidential/central/alphabetical.html
Finding Aid
The following individual name files are available for research (highlighted names were added May 2004):
Kennedy, Kennedy
Kerry (includes John Kerry)
Krusea (includes Eva and Maarja Krusten)
Landgrebe, Earl
This is some thing that needs to be checked out.
I think that you have make plans in advance to research the papers in College Park, MD.
Check out the link above for more information. |
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