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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: Did Kerry really release Navy records? BY THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB |
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http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lip09.html
"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth head John O'Neill, who raised many of the charges against Kerry during the campaign, was challenged by Kerry on "Meet the Press" in January. Kerry promised he would sign his Standard Form 180, but he wanted former Swift Boat officer O'Neill to sign as well.
All depends on how it's filled out
O'Neill did sign it and provided copies to the Chicago Sun-Times. According to O'Neill, "The Standard Form 180 could release 'the full military and medical records.' Or it could release just a few. It all depends on how it is filled out and where it was sent."
"There is nothing magic about signing a SF 180," said former Naval Judge Advocate General Mark Sullivan. "It is sort of like your checkbook. You can fill out a check for one dollar or a million. It is the same check form."
"And the Globe story says Kerry sent it to the Navy Personnel Command, which is only a limited storage location. So it is not surprising that the Globe then notes that what they received was largely 'duplication' of records previously released. The Navy Personnel Command primarily stores a subset of service records rather than a person's full military records. There is no doubt there are a lot of after-action records missing from what Kerry has released," said Sullivan."
Kerry's not talking |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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At last...an MSM finger pointing at the elephant in the middle of the room...
and we can add Josh Gerstein's name to the list of credible journalists...
| Quote: | Kerry Hangs Back From Disclosure to All
BY JOSH GERSTEIN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
June 9, 2005
More than a year after promising on national television to release his full military record, Senator Kerry of Massachusetts authorized the Navy last month to provide his service file to selected news organizations.
However, Mr. Kerry has not given the military permission to disclose the records to the general public, fueling continued speculation by the senator's critics that he is attempting to hush up some aspect of his service.
The news organizations that have seen the latest collection of documents reported that there was little new information aside from a copy of Mr. Kerry's Yale University transcript showing that the future politician received some mediocre marks.
The new release was prompted by a privacy waiver form, known as an SF-180, that Mr. Kerry signed on May 20, according a spokesman for the senator, David Wade.
A Navy spokesman, Lieutenant Commander Daniel Hernandez, said the waiver applied only to the Boston Globe and did not authorize release of Mr. Kerry's records to the public.
"Kerry controls the release of his records," Commander Hernandez said yesterday. "You have to talk to his office."
The senator also agreed to allow the Los Angeles Times to see his full record, Mr. Wade said yesterday. The spokesman did not respond to a question about why Mr. Kerry did not execute a broader release to all press organizations and the public. Asked whether the senator would permit release of the records to The New York Sun, Mr. Wade said, "The issue is over."
NY Sun - cont'd |
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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I just have 0ne question on this "New" records release......
If these "New" records have been released.....
Where the blankity-blank are they   dammit
We need a "Hey Kerry, Post your signed SF180" campaign
_________________
Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now that the Boston Globe has in its possession what it claims are Kerry's "full military and medical records," is the Globe ready to make these records available to the public? Wilkinson replied, "It is my understanding that Kerry will release these papers to anyone else now that he has signed the Form 180. The Boston Globe is not going to make available the papers we have received." |
It is unclear (perhaps deliberately) what she is stating here. Is she claiming that Kerry has issued an unrestricted blanket authorization to the NPRC a la John O'Neill or is she stating that John Kerry will now forward each and every SF 180 he recieves with his positive endorsement?
Or, I suppose, there is another possibility...that Ms. Wilkinson is as clueless about this as 99% of the rest of the MSM.
I guess the next step is an obvious one in THAT regard...FOIA anyone? |
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Would the signed SF180 be avail thru FOIA?
_________________
Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| manelly wrote: | | Would the signed SF180 be avail thru FOIA? |
THAT, my friend, is a question worthy of an answer...I wish I had one. |
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Doc Farmer
LCDR
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | manelly wrote: | | Would the signed SF180 be avail thru FOIA? |
THAT, my friend, is a question worthy of an answer...I wish I had one. |
The answer is yes. You can get a redacted version (one that blacks out sKerry's address and socsec details) by filing an FOIA request with the Pentagon and/or the National Records Centre in St. Louis.
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Fat, Bald and Ugly - And PROUD Of It! |
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d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:33 am Post subject: |
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I'm not so sure about this.
One of the issues in controversy THIS time is that it is not clear exactly to whom Kerry directed this 180 - Navy PersCom, NPRC or who?
FOIA is not all encompassing, especially about personnel records. There are intervening laws - like the Privacy Act. The very reason we have a 180, and this current controversy, is because the documented person has to grant waiver to protected records. Without the waiver, or with a limited waiver, you can usually get nothing at all in the personnel area.
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For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
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Doc Farmer
LCDR
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| d19thdoc wrote: | I'm not so sure about this.
One of the issues in controversy THIS time is that it is not clear exactly to whom Kerry directed this 180 - Navy PersCom, NPRC or who?
FOIA is not all encompassing, especially about personnel records. There are intervening laws - like the Privacy Act. The very reason we have a 180, and this current controversy, is because the documented person has to grant waiver to protected records. Without the waiver, or with a limited waiver, you can usually get nothing at all in the personnel area. |
True, the privacy rules are what would protect sKerry from an un-edited release of his documentation. However, as long as the forms are redacted (and then only for personal details like socsec numbers) there are no privacy restrictions unless sKerry chooses to withhold information himself.
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Fat, Bald and Ugly - And PROUD Of It! |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
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wonder..
1)when did Kerry first get his records,
2)and how many different selected sets of records have been released?
Have seen comments that Kerry got his records together soon after he was out of the service.
This is from current info I grabbed off this site, but, wonder if something simliar was probably applicable back in 1978. If so, would answer why he would get his records together all those years ago...
| Quote: | http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/html2/i133228x.htm
SUBJECT: Discharge Review Board (DRB) Procedures and Standards
E3.2.9. Availability of Records and Documents
E3.2.9.1. Before applying for discharge review, potential applicants or their designated representatives should obtain copies of their military personnel records by submitting a General Services Administration Standard Form 180, "Request Pertaining to Military Records," to the appropriate address indicated on the form. |
also this fromBeldarBlog
implies that Brinkley had direct access to skerry's records. More discussion on that from Beldar at the link
| Quote: | September 03, 2004
Kerry apparently signed Form 180 for Brinkley, but Brinkley is cooperating in the cover-up
I had always assumed that Sen. Kerry had himself provided his biographer Douglas Brinkley with Kerry's official military records that were already in Sen. Kerry's hands. But in reviewing Brinkley's citations and references for ToD, I came upon this statement at page 520 of his "Acknowledgements" section (boldface mine):
.... Also with Kerry's permission, I obtained his Navy records and have used them as a reliable source.
I don't know any other way to interpret this than to presume that Kerry signed, and gave to Brinkley for Brinkley's submission to the DoD, Standard Form 180. Brinkley's wording — "I obtained" — indicates that he submitted the form and that the results were sent directly to him by the DoD. |
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one of..... We The People |
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FreeFall
LCDR
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 421
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Judicial Watch sent out an News Update e-mail saying along the same lines as the Sun times article:
John Kerry finally executed a Standard Form 180 (“SF-180”). The SF-180 form is used to release privacy protected military records held in government archives. Mr. Kerry’s naval service has been a point of renewed controversy since his run for the presidency last year. Judicial Watch led the way in uncovering the details concerning Kerry’s naval record, and forced a (disappointing, whitewashed) review of his military awards & decorations by the Inspectors General of the Navy and Defense Department. Many of you will remember Kerry’s January 30, 2005 appearance on the NBC news show, Meet the Press, when moderator Tim Russert asked Sen. Kerry (three times) if he would sign an SF-180 and release all of his military records. On the third attempt Sen. Kerry answered Mr. Russert directly stating: “Yes, I will.” We took Senator Kerry at his word and on Wednesday, February 2, 2005, we hand-delivered an SF-180 and cover letter to his Senate office. The Boston Globe and other newspapers have reported they are in possession of Kerry’s “full military and medical records.” But are they? You see, an SF-180 is much like a checkbook, according to former Naval Judge Advocate Mark Sullivan. The form can be filled out for one dollar or for one million dollars. What matters is examining how Kerry filled out the SF-180 – to see precisely what he authorized to be released, and to which U.S. Navy records repository the form was submitted. Interestingly, Senator Kerry’s office has refused to produce a copy of the completed SF-180. We’ll keep tracking this story. |
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Navy wife
Research Director
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Arlington, VA & Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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For the moment, let's forget about the contents of his file and concentrate on the Form 180 itself.
Does anyone know if one can request, through a FOIA, ONLY the form that he signed? If so, we would answer many of our own questions. |
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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 Hey Kerry, Post your signed form 180
............John O'Neill Did..................
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.....Your not hiding anything..... 
..........Or are you? ...........
_________________
Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe some of the confusion on Kerry's part is accepted by the public, because the Idiot's Guide to filing the SF-180 hasn't come out yet! Or perhaps because most Americans haven't seen a form SF-180...the back of the Form SF-180 is absolutely crystal clear on where to send the form. This fact never seems to be mentioned in the press....
the back of the form gently leads by the hand all
NAVY persons,
Discharged, deceased, or retired 1/1/1886-1/30/1994 (enlisted) or 1/1/1903-1/30/1994 (officer) [yep, that's you John]
to Address #14:
NPRC (Military personnel records)
9700 Page Ave.
St. Louis, MO 631332-5100
No ambiguity is possible for English speaking veterans everywhere!
In order to believe you should send your SF-180 to Address #10, the Navy Personnel Command in Tennessee (hmmm, isn't there another ex-senator that lives there?), you need to believe that somehow Kerry thought that he was:
NAVY,
Discharged, deceased, or retired on or after 1/1/1995; or
Active, reserve, or TDRL
After thinking about this for awhile I came to the conclusion that's probably why he let those folks in Tennessee add his Yale transcript to the list of files to be released.....He does actually appear dumb enough in that transcript to be easily confused by crystal clear forms.
Deuce |
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Harvuskong
Seaman
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| bumped to the top |
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