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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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 Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: Who Has Been Lying About Your Record, Sen. Kerry? |
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Who Has Been Lying About Your Record, Sen. Kerry?
by The Bandit
After Sen. Kerry allegedly authorizes the Navy to finally release his entire military file to the Boston Globe, the Globe quotes Kerry as saying, "The call for me to sign a 180 form came from the same partisan operatives who were lying about my record on a daily basis on the Web and in the right-wing media. Even though the media was discrediting them, they continued to lie. I felt strongly that we shouldn't kowtow to them and their attempts to drag their lies out."
Well now, let's look and see why has been lying about Mr. Kerry's record....
"There was the time [March 13, 1969] we were carrying special forces up a river and a mine exploded under our boat sending it 2 feet into the air." (Congressional Record: January 28, 1998 (Senate) Page S186-S187) Note: Sen. Kerry was never onboard any Swift Boat in which a mine exploded directly under it, sending it 2 feet into the air. Sen. Kerry couldn't resist implying that he had been on a Swift Boat that had run over a mine and blown out of the water as evidenced years later in March of 2004:
"One day as our swift boat was heading up a river, a mine exploded hard under our boat. After picking ourselves up, we discovered VC was MIA. Several minutes of frantic search followed after which we thought we'd lost him. We were relieved when another boat called asking if we were missing a dog. It turns out VC was catapulted from the deck of our boat and landed confused, but unhurt, on the deck of another boat in our patrol." (Humane USA Presidential 2004 Candidate Questionnaire filled out by John Kerry)
Sen. Kerry doesn't stop with imaginary mines blowing his Swift Boat out of the water--he makes up imaginary combat experiences with imaginary crewmembers:
"Every time we got ambushed, which was often, we relied more on this fellow [David Alston] to get us out than anybody else. This gunman kept firing even though he was wounded - one bullet going through his helmet, grazing his head and another hitting him in the arm...I had no idea there was a holy man on those guns."
Sen. Kerry continued, "He [Alston] sat up in a turret above my head in the pilot house - firing twin fifty-caliber’s to suppress enemy fire from ambushes." (John Kerry May 2002 before a South Carolina veterans' group)
Note: Sen. Kerry was OINC of the PCF-44, David Alston was wounded while on the PCF-94 under OINC Tedd Peck. Kerry wasn't there that day to witness Alston being wounded in an ambush. (Content deleted by Admin pending presentation and review of documentation/me#1)
Sen. Kerry had no problem with his so-called band-of-brothers in misstating his record in order to make him out as some kind of "war hero." Let's consider what the Rev. David Alston had to say before introducing Sen. Kerry to the 2004 Democratic Convention:
"I know him from a small boat in Vietnam, where we fought and bled together, serving our country. There were six of us aboard PCF-94, a 50-foot, twin-engine craft known as a "Swift Boat." We all came from different walks of life, but all of us-including our skipper; John Kerry-volunteered for combat duty. And combat is what we got," said the Rev. David Alston.
"Once, he even directed the helmsman to beach the boat, right into the teeth of an ambush, and pursued our attackers on foot, into the jungle. In the toughest of situations, Lieutenant Kerry showed judgment, loyalty and courage. Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool...."
"I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos. Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool."
(Content deleted by Admin pending presentation and review of documentation/me#1) Military.com spoke briefly with former Kerry crewmember, Del Sandusky, on March 17, 2004, where Mr. Sandusky insisted, "Honesty means something to me, and it does to a lot of people around the country."
Well now, if honesty meant so much to Mr. Sandusky, then why on CNN NewsNight that aired May 31, 2004 he could be heard saying: "John, shot and bleeding, laid down and pulled up Rassmann by his belt." Sen. Kerry earned a Bronze Star for allegedly rescuing Rassmann out of the water. Interesting enough, it is Del Sandusky who is the official Navy witnesses for the awarding of the bronze.
Speaking of the Bronze Star incident, which occurred on March 13, 1969, Kerry has long lead the world into believing that it was a "mine" explosion that day that had wounded him. Well come to find out that isn't really true either, as both Sen. Kerry and Mr. Rassmann reveal themselves.
In Douglas Brinkley’s biography on Kerry, we find Kerry’s own war journal describing his third Purple Heart wound this way: "I got a piece of small grenade in my ass from one of the rice bin explosions." Mr. Rassmann confirms this in an interview with the Washington Post.
As both Rassmann and Kerry were heading back to the boat, Kerry and Rassmann decided to blow up a five-ton rice bin to deny food to the Vietcong. In the Post interview, Rassmann recalled that they climbed on top of the huge pile and dug a hole in the rice. On the count of three, they tossed their grenades into the hole and ran.
Evidently, Kerry did not run fast enough: "He got some frags and pieces of rice in his rear end," Rassmann said with a laugh. Turns out Sen. Kerry wasn't being truthful about his third Purple Heart wound to the Navy, an award which he claimed he was wounded from a underwater mine explosion during an enemy ambush.
Sen. Kerry had a problem telling the truth about his third wound on TV after he had returned to states: "The fact of the matter remains that after I received my third wound, I was told that I could return to the United States. I deliberated for about two weeks because there was a very difficult decision...." (Dick Cavett Show, June 30, 1971) Note: Kerry signed papers to leave Vietnam 4 days after his third self-inflicted rice
wound.
Come to find out, Sen. Kerry wasn't truthful about about his first Purple Heart either. He described it as his "first intense combat" experience to the public. But Brinkley found Kerry describing it this way in his war journal: "a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat." Such "half-assed action" doesn’t qualify anyone for a Purple Heart. No one who was there with Kerry remembers any "intense combat," something that if really had occurred they would have no problem recalling.
This is why Sen. Kerry's commanding officer refused his request for a Purple Heart within hours following the incident.
Sen. Kerry even discarded the truth with his second Purple Heart incident of February 20, 1969. He told told the Navy he and Gene Thorson received minor shrapnel due to an enemy ambush at 1400 hours on the Song Dam Doi river. But he also said the mission came to an end at 1420 hours--giving him only 20 minutes to traverse the entire length of the massive Cua Lon River to reach the waters of the Gulf of Thailand. This is simply not possible by any stretch of the imagination.
And what in the world is Sen. Kerry doing outside the pilothouse where he was able to be wounded along with Gene Thorson who would have been manning both the rear gun mount and an 81mm mortar? If Sen. Kerry was in the rear of the boat with Gene, then he must have felt they were no longer in danger of being ambushed. Perhaps another self-inflicted wound that Mr. Kerry wants people to believe were the result of enemy combat action? Sen. Kerry has maintained tight control over what should be considered truth and fiction when evaluating his record that lead to his Silver Star. It seems chasing a wounded VC behind a hooch and then shooting him was adequate initially--but became a liability in 1996 when it didn't appear proper to have killed a already wounded combatant out of sight of everyone behind a hooch.
In a AP article by Glen Johnson, dated October 28, 1996, quotes Sen. Kerry during a press conference as saying: "I was never out of sight of Tom Belodeau or Mike Medeiros, I went straight out from the boat to the path so I had a line of fire. I never went behind the hooch, and this is the first time in 30 years that anybody has suggested otherwise."
Well let's take a look at Sen. Kerry's very own Silver Star Citation that was written in March 1969: ". . . Without hesitation Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hooch, and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber." Obviously Sen. Kerry's military record has been suggesting the very thing he was attempting to deny in October of 1996.
During the same press conference Michael Medeiros was not much help for Sen. Kerry because he flat out disputed Sen. Kerry's revision by telephone--saying he did not see Sen. Kerry kill anyone, but had no doubt that the senator did so. "The only one that was there was Senator Kerry," Medeiros said.
But wait, it gets better years later when Sen. Kerry is running for President in 2004--Medeiros suddenly has a very different version that makes Kerry more of a respectable war hero. In Douglas Brinkley book, "Tour of Duty," he said he saw the VC guerilla standing on both feet ready to fire a rocket at Kerry's boat, and that he fell over dead after being shot by Sen. Kerry.
In 2004 Del Sandusky reconfirms Medeiros original 1996 contention that no one saw Kerry shoot the VC when he told the LA Times that no one had a clear view of the shooting. But "next thing we know, there's Kerry with the B-40 in his hand," Sandusky said. (Kerry in Vietnam: Daring, doubt by Stephen Braun, Los Angeles Times, August 08, 2004)
William B. Rood, OINC of another PCF that was with Kerry that day, confirmed that Sen. Kerry told him that he had chased a wounded VC guerilla behind a hooch: "Not long after [Kerry shooting a VC soldier] that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40 rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the operation." (William B. Rood, Chicago Tribune, August 21, 2004)
Interesting to note that everything Bill Rood knows is the result of what Kerry told him because he was not present to witness Kerry's actions. It's also interesting to note that Rood and his crew was not with Kerry when he beached because they were already on the ground conducting a sweep some distance from where Kerry would later beach--and he himself was inside a hooch by the time Kerry's boat finally beached.
Obviously someone has a real credibility problem when they cannot decide which version of a story they prefer to have revealed. Let's hear what Sen. Kerry has to say about his own record in his own words:
"We were fighting the [free fire] policy very, very hard, to the point that many of the members were refusing to carry out orders on some of their missions, to the point where crews were starting to mutiny, [to] say, `I would not go back in the rivers again,'" Kerry television appearance on the Dick Cavett Show in 1971.
"I mean, I was in Safwan. I went there when the signing of the armistice took place at the end of the war." (John Kerry to Bill O'Reilly.)
"I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals." When asked about his Purple Hearts and Silver Star Kerry said that, "Above that, I gave my others," not someone else’s - but his. (1971 interview)
By Christmas 1968, part of Kerry's patrol extended across the border of South Vietnam into Cambodia. "We were told, `Just go up there and do your patrol. Everybody was over there (in Cambodia). Nobody thought twice about it," Kerry said. One of the missions, which Kerry, at the time, was ordered not to discuss, involved taking CIA operatives into Cambodia to search for enemy enclaves. (Associated Press Interview with Kerry 1992) Anyone ever heard of CIA operatives using a noisy 50 foot Swift Boat in search of "enemy enclaves" inside Cambodia? Besides, there was only one Swift Boat devoted to special CIA operations, and it wasn't Kerry's.
I met "with the entire Security Council, and we spent a couple of hours talking about what they saw as the path to a united front in order to be able to deal with Saddam Hussein." (John Kerry speaking before the Council on Foreign Relations in New York in December 2003)
"I've met with foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly. But, boy, they
look at you and say: 'You've got to win this. You've got to beat this guy. We need a new
policy.'" (John Kerry March 2004)
"It just was a very inarticulate way of saying something ["I actually did vote for the $87 billion, before I voted against it"], and I had one of those inarticulate moments late in the evening when I was dead tired in the primaries and I didn't say something very clearly." (John Kerry to Diane Sawyer) Note: the inarticulate moment was actually at noon time.
"It's what you owe the troops. I remember being one of those guys and reading news reports from home. If America is at war, I won't speak a word without measuring how it'll sound to the guys doing the fighting when they're listening to their radios in the desert." (John Kerry March 3, 2003)
With troops were within 25 miles of Baghdad, Kerry said, "What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States." (Boston Globe, 4/3/03)
"Let me make this clear: My full military record has been made public. All of my medical records and all of my fitness reports, every fitness report involving each place I served, is public." Interesting to note that on June 7th, both the Globe and LA Times has revealed new records never before released. In fact, they are not even releasing them.
Finally, one must ask, who has been lying about your record again, Sen. Kerry? |
Last edited by The bandit on Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:07 am; edited 4 times in total |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: |
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P.S. Why did you remove all your military records from your website the same week you supposedly signed Form 180?
SBD |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Who Has Been Lying About Your Record, Sen. Kerry? |
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| The bandit wrote: |
Who Has Been Lying About Your Record, Sen. Kerry?
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An excellent summary for the case that sKerry has serious psychological problems
Well done Bandit. It reflects your many long hours spent in research and analysis
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Last edited by rbshirley on Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Admin note: I have removed certain allegations made in the title post and have moved this post to our R&R forum pending review of documentation.
Please be aware that views expressed in this forum do not, necessarily, reflect the views of Swift Vets and POWs for Truth. |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Removed by admin - EJ
Bandit, that was uncalled-for.
If you have irrefutable proof, then please bring it forward! The world would be clamoring at your feet.
In the meantime, your theory, while a good possible scenario, has holes in it.
Protecting the image of Swifts has to come before any other consideration. |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | Removed by admin - EJ
Bandit, that was uncalled-for.
If you have irrefutable proof, then please bring it forward! The world would be clamoring at your feet.
In the meantime, your theory, while a good possible scenario, has holes in it.
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Oh? What holes is that? Please point out in my lengthy analysis backed on FOIA information and Alston's own words that this site refused to carry and just gathered dust on my site because no one here was interested in vetting the facts because you did not want Alston to have an ounce of burden to demostrate that in fact he was not being untruthful?
Kerry and his band can call us all liars without any specifics or refuting evidence...yet I cannot even when supported with overwhelming evidence?
O'Neil will tell you once a witness is caught in lie after lie the burden falls squarely on them to prove thier story. Alston had the opportunity but instead opted to continue evading the truth because he had been outed and could offer no evidence to support his fabrications. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | Please point out in my lengthy analysis backed on FOIA information and Alston's own words that this site refused to carry and just gathered dust on my site because no one here was interested in vetting the facts because you did not want Alston to have an ounce of burden to demostrate that in fact he was not being untruthful?
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As I recollect, you were asked on your own website to provide the FOIA documentation you claimed you possessed that conclusively proved your allegation that David Alston never served under John Kerry. As I also recollect, you failed to provide that documentation.
Here is your opportunity to provide it just as you were advised both privately and in your post edited above. Provide us your documentation.
It's THAT simple. |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: |
It's THAT simple. |
No its not that simple with you Jay, and it will never be. You will continue stonewalling and refusing to face up to the fact Alston all but admits he lied and was never in combat with kerry. You will dismiss any offical adminstrative remarks via FOIA suggesting Alston was reactivated March 25 and assigned to another PCF as full of of "holes" because it doesn't rule out the possiblility that Alston could still had the opportunity to have been Kerry's gunner on March 13. This subject will always be a lossing battle in this fourm because there will never be any "inrefutable" evidence short of maybe Alston going on TV and saying he wasn't there, even though his statements to York all but says the same thing in addition to his past remarks. He still refuses to say for certain where he was and when to combat events that evidence would support.
If this whole matter was solely left to you to dictate and control Byron York would never had picked up the story and advanced it and we still be left to vetting unknowns and possibilities.
I've made my case, now why don't you refute me and prove Alston and Kerry REALLY indeed served in combat together on the same boat? Come on, you can do it can't you? If you cannot then the evidence is just too overwhelming to ignore and you are reduced to arguing for more evidence that the earth really does indeed circle the sun. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:15 am Post subject: |
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The burden of proof is always on the prosecutor.
You may well have proof that Alston wasn't where he and Kerry claim he was. I think that's not only a possibility, but perhaps even likely.
Unfortunately, we're not talking about chances of likelihood and we don't stake the Swifts' reputation on strong possibilities.
I admit that I am somewhat a dim bulb, but people a lot smarter than me have poked holes in your documentation.
Just draw me a picture, that's all I'm asking. And for every point, have documentation ready. It's not just I who can't follow your allegations - everything has to be airtight.
The Swifts have not yet been proven wrong on a single allegation which they have made.
Do you really want to open yourself to the possibility that your claim could be the first which can be categorically refuted? Gee, don't you see that the leftists among us would FINALLY have the scrap of validity for their "largely discredited Swift Boat Veterans" mantra?
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I've made my case, now why don't you refute me and prove Alston and Kerry REALLY indeed served in combat together on the same boat? |
Your case is not made until you supply the documentation you claimed to have received under FOIA. Although I believe what you say is true, without proper documentation, it becomes one word against another.
If you have actually received such information, simply supply it and the matter is put to rest.
Don't forget, all sKerry had to do was say the Swiftees were liars and the leftstream media ran with it as conclusive proof he was being truthful.
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Clark County Conservative |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:00 am Post subject: |
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It seems very simple Bandit...produce the docs. That is what is being asked for here and obviously at your website also. You put up a good arguement, but you produce no evidence.
We can all speculate, and I speculate you most likely are correct, but without the docs it all means nothing and the Swiftvets reputation must remain irrefuatably clean.
Evidence please? |
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