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Molon Labe
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 Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: Kerry's Form 180 posted on powerline |
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Kerry's Form 180 posted on powerline
http://www.powerlineblog.com
Admin note: I've given this post its own topic. Thanks/me#1 |
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mtboone
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Kerry's Form 180 posted on powerline
John O'Neill will study it I am sure and if something is not right, he will know. But, they never release the documents of Kerry, something to hide?
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kate
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:52 am Post subject: |
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from the link....
| Quote: | | Via the Freedom of Information Act, a reader obtained copies of the Form 180s that were recently signed by John Kerry to permit, at long last, the release of his military records. I believe there may be a story about this in the New York Sun tomorrow, and no doubt more commentary will be forthcoming over the next few days. Here are the three documents that Kerry signed; on their face, I don't see anything wrong with them, but then, I'm no expert in military personnel records. We look forward to our readers' comments. |
NYSun... one of the papers that runs Thomas Lipscomb articles
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:54 am Post subject: |
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On the face of it, it's incredible to me that this rather benign looking form had to be sat on by the Globe & Kerry and obtained through FOIA. However, it's just as well that it was done this way so as to certify that these are copies of what the NPRC has on hand and were used as the basis for the release. This, of course, has yet to be established definitively but I'm assuming that will come tomorrow. I wouldn't have trusted anything released by Kerry or The Globe at this point.
It would appear we are seeing the signed 180. And now for the records themselves... |
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kate
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:37 am Post subject: |
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only difference I see between Kerry's & John ONeill's...
IF it is a materiel difference
Kerry- Military Service Record & Medical Record
O'Neill - All records, of any kind
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stealthy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:09 am Post subject: |
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When I heard of this I came here, because I trust that I will find the facts about this from here.
I will be watching this thread. The rubber should meet the road now.
Vindicaton is near.
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chemical_boy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:18 am Post subject: |
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kerry only Requested his Active duty records and not his Reserve Service Records?
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| chemical_boy wrote: | | kerry only Requested his Active duty records and not his Reserve Service Records? |
No, he requested his complete Military Service Record, which includes Reserve Service.
He also included medical records and an undeleted report of separation for all years.
It appears to me that the request was restrictive only in regards to who was doing the releasing (did it go to the NPRC or did it go to the Dept. of the Navy?) and who would recieve the copies of the records. (Three reporters)
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kate
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:37 am Post subject: |
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the article from the NewYorkSun
| Quote: | Kerry Grants Three Reporters Broad Access to Navy Records
BY JOSH GERSTEIN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
June 21, 2005
WASHINGTON - Senator Kerry of Massachusetts recently granted three reporters broad access to his Navy service records, according to documents obtained by The New York Sun.
The privacy waivers signed by Mr. Kerry authorized the release of "a single, one time copy of the complete military service record and medical record of John F. Kerry" to Glen Johnson of the Associated Press, Michael Kranish of the Boston Globe, and Stephen Braun of the Los Angeles Times.
The waivers, executed on a National Archives form known as Standard Form 180, also permitted release of "an undeleted report" of any discharges ever granted to Mr. Kerry. The undeleted reports would include the "character" of any discharge, the form indicates.
Last year, when Mr. Kerry was the Democratic nominee for president, some of the senator's critics speculated that a six-year gap in his service record indicated that he was disciplined or discharged less than honorably after leading antiwar protests in the 1970s. A spokesman for Mr. Kerry, David Wade, adamantly denied that the senator was ever punished by the military or discharged less than honorably.
The journalists who reviewed the records the Navy released said there was no indication of any discharge beyond the honorable one Mr. Kerry received in 1978.
One of Mr. Kerry's most steadfast critics, Houston attorney John O'Neill, said yesterday that the latest information from the Navy did not address the issue of whether Mr. Kerry's record might have been purged. "The real question was, was other material in there and was anything expunged?" Mr. O'Neill said.
The Navy provided the copies of the privacy waivers to the Sun in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.
Mr. Kerry first promised to make public his full Navy record more than a year ago. Mr. Kerry signed the waivers for the wire service and the Globe on May 20. The form for the Times was signed June 6.
A spokesman for Mr. Kerry rebuffed a request from the Sun for access to the service and medical files released to the other three news organizations. |
would these journalists know what to look for in reading these records?
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coldwarvet
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| kate wrote: | the article from the NewYorkSun
| Quote: | Kerry Grants Three Reporters Broad Access to Navy Records
BY JOSH GERSTEIN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
June 21, 2005
WASHINGTON - Senator Kerry of Massachusetts recently granted three reporters broad access to his Navy service records, according to documents obtained by The New York Sun.
The privacy waivers signed by Mr. Kerry authorized the release of "a single, one time copy of the complete military service record and medical record of John F. Kerry" to Glen Johnson of the Associated Press, Michael Kranish of the Boston Globe, and Stephen Braun of the Los Angeles Times.
The waivers, executed on a National Archives form known as Standard Form 180, also permitted release of "an undeleted report" of any discharges ever granted to Mr. Kerry. The undeleted reports would include the "character" of any discharge, the form indicates.
Last year, when Mr. Kerry was the Democratic nominee for president, some of the senator's critics speculated that a six-year gap in his service record indicated that he was disciplined or discharged less than honorably after leading antiwar protests in the 1970s. A spokesman for Mr. Kerry, David Wade, adamantly denied that the senator was ever punished by the military or discharged less than honorably.
The journalists who reviewed the records the Navy released said there was no indication of any discharge beyond the honorable one Mr. Kerry received in 1978.
One of Mr. Kerry's most steadfast critics, Houston attorney John O'Neill, said yesterday that the latest information from the Navy did not address the issue of whether Mr. Kerry's record might have been purged. "The real question was, was other material in there and was anything expunged?" Mr. O'Neill said.
The Navy provided the copies of the privacy waivers to the Sun in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.
Mr. Kerry first promised to make public his full Navy record more than a year ago. Mr. Kerry signed the waivers for the wire service and the Globe on May 20. The form for the Times was signed June 6.
A spokesman for Mr. Kerry rebuffed a request from the Sun for access to the service and medical files released to the other three news organizations. |
would these journalists know what to look for in reading these records? |
Are these journalists honest brokers? I think they are probably Kerry pawns that will only reveal what has been approved by Kerry. The rest of the documents are a heap of ashes in the burn barrel. And now Kerry can honestly say that he has released all of his records.
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| coldwarvet wrote: |
Are these journalists honest brokers? |
And, perhaps even more importantly (as Kate noted above), are they capable brokers?
I daresay all 3 were complicit in disseminating, at face value, every specious canard that Kerry offered in attempting to rebut SVPT accusations. The most obvious one, that only ONE of the SVPT ever "served" with John Kerry (patently laughable to ANYONE who ever served in the military) was given maximum exposure. Was that IGNORANCE or purposeful propaganda?
And when irrefutable TRUTHS were uncovered, they either mitigated the importance of the reality or ignored the obvious pattern of deception and lies that have, without doubt, characterized John Kerry's checkered career.
As far as the "selected" release itself is concerned, res ipse loquitor, and I'm unconvinced, at this point, whether it will set well with the rest of the "journalism" world. One thing is for certain...were this a George Bush release to Fox News, the Washington Times and The Wall Street Journal, the hue and cry emanating from the left (and led not coincidentally by the 3 recipients) would be Tsunamic in its vilification of the perpetrators.
If this "selected release" is allowed to stand, it's yet another nail in the coffin of "Old Media". All that's left to do is place an appropriate headstone. |
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Tanya
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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http://powerlineblog.com/archives/010797.php
June 21, 2005
Mixed up, take 2
"Josh Gerstein of the New York Sun and freelancer Thomas Lipscomb are the only two reporters who have undertaken to resolve the mystery of John Kerry's SF-180. Earlier this month we noted their stories on the subject in "Mixed-up." Having received copies of the three Kerry SF-180 forms (posted below) pursuant to a FOIA request, Gerstein returns to the subject today in "Kerry grants three reporters broad access to Navy records." Gerstein quotes John O'Neill, who no longer raises any question about the manner in which the forms were filled out:
One of Mr. Kerry's most steadfast critics, Houston attorney John O'Neill, said yesterday that the latest information from the Navy did not address the issue of whether Mr. Kerry's record might have been purged. "The real question was, was other material in there and was anything expunged?" Mr. O'Neill said.
In this article Gerstein does not return to the question he had addressed earlier regarding the location of Kerry's complete military records. In his earlier article, he quoted a Navy spokesman asserting that the released documents constituted "the whole record." What does the National Personnel Records Center say? We don't know. Gerstein concludes his article on this note:
Mr. Kerry first promised to make public his full Navy record more than a year ago. Mr. Kerry signed the waivers for the wire service [Glen Johnson of the AP] and the Globe on May 20. The form for the Times was signed June 6.
A spokesman for Mr. Kerry rebuffed a request from the Sun for access to the service and medical files released to the other three news organizations.
When the Globe's Michael Kranish reported on Kerry's records earlier this month, I noted that Kerry was either the world's worst politician or that something was missing from his records. I believe that observation still applies."
note: formatted to reflect quotes/me#1 |
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coldwarvet
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Why isn't ______________ news allowed to see the John Kerry military record? John Kerry recently signed the SF-180 form releasing all of his military records. So where is your copy?
Just fill in the blank and send out to all the news outlets in your orbit.
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Last edited by coldwarvet on Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Essayons
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Location: Philadelphia area
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Possibly I am overreacting but I still smell the proverbial rat. The statement below by the ‘journalists” who reviewed Kerry’s records the Navy released may contain a nuance or two.
“The journalists who reviewed the records the Navy released said there was no indication of any discharge beyond the honorable one Mr. Kerry received in 1978.”
The choice of the word “beyond” is curious since Kerry posted on his web site his enlisted DD214 and his enlisted Honorable Discharge from 1966 when he accepted his commission. Using the word “other” rather than “beyond” would have been incorrect due to Kerry’s 1966 discharge.
Does the use of the “beyond” mean “after’ or could it mean “except?” “Except” would be as equally incorrect as “other.” If the inference of the word “beyond” is indeed “after”, then it is indeed a cover for the years beyond 1978 and therefore does not tell us anything about before 1978. A nuance?
I am still curious as to why the Navy was the recipient/go-between of Kerry’s SF 180s when the NPRC states that they hold the complete records for Naval enlisted/officers for the time period of Kerry’s service. There was no need to have the Navy act as a go-between.
Two years ago I sent my SF 180 to NPRC and only filled in the Active Duty section as did Kerry since I kept all of my Reserve documentation covering those years. I received back from them only active duty documents. Possibly this was an oversight on the part of NPRC but since I was not trying to get copies of documents from my Reserve years I did not care.
My overall take on Kerry and the SF 180 issue is that it took him a year to find out how to submit his SF 180 without anything that would really embarrass him getting out. The titillating knowledge that he was not a rocket scientist at Yale was a small concession on his part but it was of no consequence regarding his military record.
Regards,
Dick
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coldwarvet
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Essayons, we have learned so much about the English language since the infamous it “depends on what is is" statement.
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